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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I often see, from a distance or on the Net, sailors putting a board between two stanchions and tying diesel or water containers to them. I was wondering if anyone who does this could tell me if you just paint or epoxy coat a pine 2X4 or if you use teak or mahogany material. Also, it seems as if you are putting quite a load on the stanchions. How often do you expect to damage the lifelines doing this? I also have a sit-on-top kayak and have seen others with some bracket, again attached to the lifelines. Is this relatively safe also?
 

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S/V Wyndwitch - Morgan 24
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Hi Pinay.
Don't know how others rig their lifelines for loads but realistically I avoid putting much of anything there that would catch much water..mine cannot handle more than the essential task. But people lash all sorts of stuff there and if all your do in is the bay and or intracoastal...it's probably fine but not wise outside unless very well secured. Should be interesting to see others ideas on this.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk
 

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Sailor
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I guess it depends upon your lifeline stantions. Standard stantions are robustly built and should handle the load. Remember, the board is attached low so the pressure would be better supported.

Everything's a compromise. Should you take a big wave they would create resistance to the water passing possibly causing something to break. Maybe the board?? On the other hand, the purpose of those boards are to increase your tankage. This is often the only or best way of carrying enough fuel on an extended cruise where you would be far from fuel sources. You would not want fuel stored in lockers or below in case of leaks.

As for the board? I think most select a pressure treated timber.

Tod
 

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Sailboat Reboot
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Like many cruisers I carry tanks on my deck. And I frequently sail well offshore. A couple of notes:

1. Wave action can be brutal. I have had two of my tanks cracked by wave action. It's not fun to smell and see diesel flowing down the deck. In answer to your question can it put a lot of load on the lifelines the answer is clearly yes.
2. My solution was to run two lengths of 7/8" stainless tube between the lifeline stanchions. One is high and its sole purpose is the attachment of lines that go over the tops of the tanks to prevent them from rising up. The second tube is low and removes any load from the wire lifeline and transfers it to the tube.
3. Over time I realized that no matter how I secured the tanks to the tubes there would be some slack. This meant that the tanks could gain momentum when hit by a wave. This increased the amount of "shock load" on the tubes. My solution was to build a stainless tube cage that holds the tanks firmly in place. The tanks fit snugly in the cage and can't move. The cage is also secured to the deck so part of the lateral load is absorbed by the deck fittings rather than the lifelines.
4. I chose an "open plan" rather than using a solid board so that in an emergency I could reduce the "sail area" of the hull. In extremis I can remove the tanks and reduce the impact of wind on the stanchions and lifelines. Perhaps a bit of overkill but IMHO every little bit helps.

Its dark at the moment but once the sun comes up I will take a picture and post it for you.

Fair winds and following seas :)
 

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Full time cruiser
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We have been out 8 years now, sailed east coast USA three times then from Miami to Mexico to Colombia to Jamaica to Trinidad to Antigua then across to the Azores and on to the med. We just think that it is just to dangerous to tie stuff on the deck. We never ever do but we have seen others do.

Just in our opinion it is not safe.
 

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Bristol 45.5 - AiniA
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We have a board that we have diesel jugs tied to. It is a warped pine 2 X 4 that sat in our garage for years because I could find a use for it. The curve in the board is basically perfect for the shape I need (a slight twist). We paint it about every 3 years. We have had waves hit it without any problems. I think one help is that with separate jerry jugs there is some give to it. The bottom of the jugs can move a bit. I would be more worried with one, solid thing like a kayak that was tied really tightly to the stanchions so that the force of the wave would all go into the stanchions.
 
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I often see, from a distance or on the Net, sailors putting a board between two stanchions and tying diesel or water containers to them. I was wondering if anyone who does this could tell me if you just paint or epoxy coat a pine 2X4 or if you use teak or mahogany material. Also, it seems as if you are putting quite a load on the stanchions. How often do you expect to damage the lifelines doing this? I also have a sit-on-top kayak and have seen others with some bracket, again attached to the lifelines. Is this relatively safe also?
First off, where are you headed that you think you'll need to carry fuel on deck in addition to the listed fuel capacity of the Princess of 40 gallons? Seems to me there are a lot of folks out there carrying fuel in such a manner, that don't necessarily need to be doing go...

If you're headed offshore, I have to agree with chuck5499, it's certainly a less than optimum solution, and I'd suggest you try to avoid it... Obviously, many people 'get away with' doing so, but unless you're pretty certain you'll never take a boarding wave, or bury the rail, it's hard to state unequivocally that it's "relatively safe"... Chances are if you ever spill diesel on your decks in serious conditions offshore, you'll figure out a better alternative :)

Just my opinion, as always... Regarding this issue, mine is obviously in the minority, these days... :)

 

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Bristol 45.5 - AiniA
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Jon
I have to disagree with you on this one. It is not about fuel capacity (or I guess it could be) but it is about fuel delivery. Many of the places we have been there are no marinas with nice fuel docks. There may be fishing boat docks (but not always) but they they are generally large, rough, and have only high delivery pumps. You really need to have a couple of jerry cans to get fuel, and two others to get water. This can take up a lot of your storage capacity in cockpit lockers or wherever. We have a handy folding cart and with it we can carry three tanks (four if the roads/sidewalks are particularly good). Fuel means the nearest gas station and that may be next to the dinghy dock or beach or it may be several blocks away. We generally have full tanks on deck since they are more stable than empty ones (they are empty now).

The photo you posted has, what appears to be a Port-bote on the forward deck. I used to have one of these and liked it but I think you are asking for trouble with them tied on offshore. Sometimes tanks on deck cannot be avoided.
 

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Mermaid Hunter
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My solution may not be anyone else's. It works for me.

I have a center cockpit boat with no dinghy davits. The aft deck is pretty big. There are G&T seats in the corners.

I have two 2x6 oak boards sized to fit across the fairly broad opening in the transom gate. The boards are set up to lash jugs to or use as fender boards; I have yet to be in a circumstance where I needed both capabilities at the same time.

I own two 3 gallon gas tanks for my outboard that are stored under the upside dinghy on the foredeck. I have a slew of 20l jugs that are all the same size: 1 gas, 2 water, 5 diesel. I usually cruise with 1 gas, 2 water, and 2 diesel full and lashed to the boards on the aft deck across the transom gate.

Dinghy operations at anchor are all alongside.
 

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Jon
I have to disagree with you on this one. It is not about fuel capacity (or I guess it could be) but it is about fuel delivery. Many of the places we have been there are no marinas with nice fuel docks. There may be fishing boat docks (but not always) but they they are generally large, rough, and have only high delivery pumps. You really need to have a couple of jerry cans to get fuel, and two others to get water. This can take up a lot of your storage capacity in cockpit lockers or wherever. We have a handy folding cart and with it we can carry three tanks (four if the roads/sidewalks are particularly good). Fuel means the nearest gas station and that may be next to the dinghy dock or beach or it may be several blocks away. We generally have full tanks on deck since they are more stable than empty ones (they are empty now).
That's certainly a valid point... However, I doubt it applied to the boat prepping for the Caribbean 1500 I pictured, or to the overwhelming percentage of boats I see motoring down the ICW with the rails lined with jerry cans :) Unless you have a really minimal fuel capacity, or unusually deep draft that will keep you away from most fuel docks, I just don't see where you need a bunch of jerry cans to make it thru a winter sabbatical in the Bahamas, for instance... Well, except for those never sail, perhaps... :)

I'm somewhat acquainted with the matter of having to bring fuel to the boat... Last summer, after topping off at the marina in St. Peter's on Cape Breton Island, a never saw another fuel dock until returning there again, after 2,500 miles of cruising further north - much of that under power... Of course, I sail a boat smaller than most, but I somehow managed to get by traveling with only a single jerry can, used solely to transport fuel...

Makkovik - widely regarded as "The Friendliest Town in Labrador" - was the only place I was able to get fuel dispensed directly into my tank...



Elsewhere, it was typically a matter of carrying fuel to the boat, 6 gallons at a time... The fuel depot in Hopedale was one of the more convenient fuel stops I made, they even had a spare jug I could borrow to cut the number of trips back and forth to the boat in half...



I really lucked out in Nain, the last place I would be able to obtain diesel before heading up to Hebron, and beyond. No gas stations are open up in Coastal Labrador north of Cartwright on the weekends, naturally I arrived on a Friday night :) And, turned out that Monday was a Canadian civil holiday, so I'd have to wait until Tuesday... But some guys on a construction crew helped me out, bigtime, and sold me about 15 gallons from their own supply, even delivering it to the boat... That was a huge break, as I really needed to keep moving in advance of some weather on the way...



My final re-fueling before making it back to a fuel dock was in North Ingonish, after crossing the Cabot Strait... Good news is, gas stations are invariably at a higher elevation than the harbor, it was an easy glide for most of the way back to the boat :) One other advantage of carting fuel, the prices at gas stations are usually considerably less than at a marina. At your Canadian prices, that's not insignificant... :)

 

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some guys on a construction crew helped me out, bigtime, and sold me about 15 gallons from their own supply, even delivering it to the boat... That was a huge break, as I really needed to keep moving in advance of some weather on the way...
Heh. That money went straight in their pocket, the company never saw a cent of it! :)

Very nice pictures, btw, thank you for sharing.
 

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This video shows the set up that we have used when delivering Turicum back to Vancouver after the Vic Maui race. Pressure treated 2 X 4's take the strain.


This was the view from our boat on our approach to Navarino on the medevac in 2012 .

You can also see it from Navarino.


We had a similar set up in 2000 on Prairie Voyager. Broad reaching in 30 knot winds, 12-15 foot seas. - no problems.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Thanks so much guys. Obviously the answers came from lots of experience, though the opinions differed. When we first bought the boat and brought it back from Ft. Myers, it was in July and there was little wind, and we were on a time schedule (still working) so we brought a couple of extra jugs of diesel since we figured we'd be using them. Scuba tanks are another option, along with the mentioned kayak.
I think we'll use them, but particularly with the scuba tanks, try and avoid anything on them when we go offshore for extended distances, and I'll save some serious money by using pressure treated instead of teak or mahogany!
 

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Another option for the kayak may be a Klepper or Folbot folding kayak. "Only two more bags" to stow below, but easy to set up once your there, and they both make doubles. I have a sailing rig for my Folbot, but that's another bag.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Thanks for that but we've already gotten Wilderness Systems Tarpon sit on top kayaks. As many likely know, sometimes the biggest hurdle to cruising is getting your spouse on board. I was having that trouble myself until she fell in love with kayaking. Then all I had to do was strap them onboard Serenity and she was willing to sail anywhere with the promise of a kayak ride at the end!
 

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al brazzi
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Thanks so much guys. Obviously the answers came from lots of experience, though the opinions differed. When we first bought the boat and brought it back from Ft. Myers, it was in July and there was little wind, and we were on a time schedule (still working) so we brought a couple of extra jugs of diesel since we figured we'd be using them. Scuba tanks are another option, along with the mentioned kayak.
I think we'll use them, but particularly with the scuba tanks, try and avoid anything on them when we go offshore for extended distances, and I'll save some serious money by using pressure treated instead of teak or mahogany!
Side bar on materials, Teak has gotten to the point where I seek it out scrap since most retail pricing is completely unaffordable. On the other hand Mahogany can be bought relatively cheap at local specialty yards, there are different grades but all acceptable in a marine environment especially finished with Cetol and such. But I see everything from the wood perspective its my passion.
 

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Thanks for that but we've already gotten Wilderness Systems Tarpon sit on top kayaks. As many likely know, sometimes the biggest hurdle to cruising is getting your spouse on board. I was having that trouble myself until she fell in love with kayaking. Then all I had to do was strap them onboard Serenity and she was willing to sail anywhere with the promise of a kayak ride at the end!
Jan and David on the Passport 37 WINTERLUDE have been carrying their kayaks for years on the sort of racks you mention:





They've stayed mostly in the Western Caribbean... Seems to me beating out to the Lesser Antilles might put that setup to the test :), but it's obviously worked for them so far... I don't know how other people live with that degree of impeded visibility forward, for starters, but perhaps that's just me... :)

Jan's website is a wealth of information, btw, might be worth your while to bookmark it...

Commuter Cruiser ? Info for Part-Time Cruisers and More!
 

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Mermaid Hunter
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fuel on deck and the associated loading and unloading to and from the dinghy and taxi rides to and from the gas station in remote places is the #1 reason I have contemplated going electric propulsion on my next boat even with limited range, Ill gladly take that in exchange.

the fuel always leaked on deck...you had to cover them to prevent sun damage...they are brutal on rigging if smashed by a wave...and they add considerable windage. They also take considerable deck space.

having said that most all cruiser boats I saw out there around the world all had some sort of fuel stowed on deck..be it a small dinghy gas tank...propane or diesel jugs tied to boards on the lifelines/rigging

for some reason I saw the most diesel stowage on ocean crossings(there is a common fear of being left windless in the doldrums or something) and running out of food...

however 100 percent of the time in our case at least the jugs were still full(the deck ones) and only about a half tank or so of the main tanks were used mostly anytime we ran the watermaker and just to keep the diesel in good shape.

however its all depends where you cruise and stuff...

cheers
 
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