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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
For quite a while now there has been a huge interest in multihull cruising boats. At recent Annapolis Boat Shows there has been almost an equal area of water devoted to big multihulls as there has been to monohulls. There seems to be an equal number of multihull boat reviews in the major sailing magazines like Cruising World and Sail.

For some folks, multihulls seem to be the only way to go. For others they hold no appeal. For some on both sides of the mono and multi worldview, this topic is treated with near religious fervor. This thread was created to allow a civil discourse on a broad range of topics related to multihulls.

Hopefully this thread will provide a place for such topics as:
-Introduction and discussion of interesting new (or old) Multihull models
-Perceived 'whys and wherefores' of Multihull popularlity
-Multihull Technical issues
-Safety and seaworthiness
-Why you like or dislike multihulls
-experiences with Multihulls
-And other general Multihull related discussions.

While there are bound to be differences of opinions (and those are welcome within this thread and within SailNet in general), and bound to be some random amounts of thread drift, what will not be tolerated is personal attacks or dismissive comments.

Respectfully,
Jeff
 

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I like cats and wish I could afford a fast one. The one thing I generally don't like about them is I don't think they look very good. However I think this one looks great but without standing headroom it's a bit of a non starter.

KD 860
 

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....At recent Annapolis Boat Shows there has been almost an equal area of water devoted to big multihulls as there has been to monohulls. .....
That's an interesting way to put it. Same area of water would suggest fewer actual models, given the cats footprint. One might even conclude, algebraically, the show was then 2/3rds monos and 1/3 multis.

I guess, I've seen multis there for so long, I didn't take note of a larger presence this past Oct.

Are there any reasonably sized cats with a centerline master berth that you can approach from the side, like a human and not like a dog climbing into it's dog house? I know centerlines don't make good sea berths, but we all spend hundreds of times more nights at anchor than overnight at sea. My current is the first boat I didn't have to climb in from the end and it's a real game changer.
 

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I like cats and wish I could afford a fast one. The one thing I generally don't like about them is I don't think they look very good. However I think this one looks great but without standing headroom it's a bit of a non starter.

KD 860


I don’t have standing headroom in our salon, but then again I’m 6’4” tall. My wife however does



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

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As I've said elsewhere I'm very interested in learning about multis, especially from those who have sailed or are sailing them. We've had a great conversation about them elsewhere. Now that we have this new thread where we should be able to continue that conversation - I'm going to start moving my posts that I think are relevant from that thread to this one.

So pardon the dust...
 

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Have you even seen a 70 foot plus cat? Obviously fracking not or you wouldn't make such a ridiculous post. They are about as far from a cruising boat as a mega-motor yacht. They are huge luxurious vessels with circular staircases, galleys for the "real" chef to create gourmet meals, walk in freezers, bars on every deck and most have hot tubs for 8 or ten people. I've never seen any of that on a "cruising" boat, have you?
At 70+ feet you are kinda leaving the "cruising" boat idea for most folks, monohull or catamaran. I've seen very very few 65 foot plus family or retired couple cruisers.
But hey, if you've got the bucks to buy a 70 foot luxury roomaran and go cruise it, then I'll owe you an apology. Otherwise....
You mean like the Privilege Serie 7 or even Serie 8?



I guess I'm trying to figure out how a circular staircase prevents a large catamaran from sailing. Remember, you said that "the husband would miss his sailing".

Here is a 90' Catana crossing the Atlantic...


They certainly seem to be able to sail - even in F8/F9 conditions off the African coast.

So, my post wasn't ridiculous at all. No one has to "miss sailing" on any sailing catamaran no matter the size. I'm not sure which of these boats has the 8-person hot tub - but those can be drained when going to sea - and everything in a gourmet kitchen, walk-in freezer, and even the booze on every deck can be stowed. What would prevent them from sailing?

You certainly don't owe me an apology. But you might want to rethink your position a bit. Your notion of cruising is obviously not everyone's. And there are lots of large cats out there doing what you're saying they can't. Whether you or I can personally afford one or not has nothing to do with it.
 

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In 2016 multihulls made up almost half of the overall charter fleet...and about 16% of the US imports. Though the imports were down a bit from that previous year, the domestic production of 30'+ multihulls was up 71% - and represented 20% of overall domestic production (now there's some important stats).

I'm not at all surprised people don't see more in their marinas or sailing areas. Multis are clearly growing like crazy at the top of the market - but they haven't yet filtered down into the used market. BUT it's pretty clear the pressures being applied to the new monohull market. Oyster, IP, Hunter, etc - the list will continue to grow while forums continue to obsess over "proper seaberths and handholds".
 

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It's funny that this Oyster thread has become a mutlihull thread - but it's actually very fitting if you think about it. As to first-hand experience of the differences in sailing between the two from someone who knows very well, I was going to post these videos in my mutlihull thread before it was unceremoniously locked...for eternity it seems.

I don't think it can be any clearer than this...

Go to around 7:30 and you can see their shakedown cruise conditions and comments by Riley (this is their first real sail with this cat)...


...listen to his comments around 9:00 about the comparison of beating into 25 knots, and look at him and his comfort level and expression. Then continue on to Elayna cooking in these conditions. They talk about he grief they'll catch from chuckleheads about the knives "not being properly stowed"...yet the fruit bowl is perfectly settled.

They aren't even soiling their undies.

Then you have the following video where they talk about the feeling of sailing the cat for a week compared to their old mono at about 12:40...


"How comfortable you can arrive - not exhausted..."

There you go. From those who know. I just don't think there are any arguments left.
 

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This either needs some context or additional clarity. US production of sail catamarans are almost nil. Endeavor might still make one or two, and then there is Gemini and Mainecat with a single model each still current. Mainecat has only built a couple of their 38. While they would probably pull out the 41 and 30 molds for anyone who wanted one, I'm not aware of them having sold one in a while. After that, I'm only aware of bespoke builders in the US with very low production - single boats every couple of years.

So maybe I'm missing some US builders of quantity? Or maybe the few catamarans produced each year in the US does represent 20% of the domestic production - which would speak alarming volumes about US monohull production going down the tubes.

Mark
Those numbers are from the 2016 Sailing Market Report (which covered up to 2015). I don't know the full context - but at that point wasn't Alpha and Gunboat still going?

The numbers in the report show 36 units of 30'+ multis being built in the US (vs. 21 the previous year) with this notation...

*Multihulls represented 20% of overall domestic production in 2015 - one in five sailboats built in North America was a multihull
And there were 92 active US builders during that year (a year-over-year decrease from 139 in 2007) - and 70% of those have less than 25 employees.

I think your last point is right on. The domestic boat building market as of 2015 was completely in the toilet - with the only real bright spot being multis (and very small boats holding up). But with Alpha and Gunboat dropping, who knows what the current US multi market is doing now three years later?

That's all I've got right now at my fingertips. You can cross-check these various numbers in the report. I'm too lazy.
 

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...Bavaria and Dufour have now gone that way.
Bavaria's Nautitec 40 Open isn't bad at $500K...



But it's a bit "sensible shoes" to me in the aesthetics department. Not exactly clean and proportional.

What's Dufour coming out with? I saw a website but it seems to be a placeholder.
 

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Dufour is in tooling phase and haven't produced a boat yet - just taking orders.

You know, I'm slowly coming around to this type of aesthetics, and starting to see older designs like a LeRouge as being dated. For sure when this styling first appeared I was appalled, but owning a catamaran changes one to appreciate function over form for living, and these styles come with some great functionality. Even beyond that, I'm coming around to the style itself. I had similar change of opinion on the Euro/Ikea interior styles over the years.

Besides, there is plenty of room for hating on style in the catamaran market:

Mark
Is this the LeRouge?



If so, then I'm guilty of preferring dated design (though this is a bit over the top). I had not heard of LeRouge before. Thanks for the reference.

So far, the boat that ticks the boxes for me is the FP Helia 44 - or as I like to call it...the HellYeah!



Everything about this boat is right to me.
 

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I appreciate curves, but prefer them in a Schionning or similar. Like I said, I'm coming around to the more hard styling - particularly because it is functional. It begins to look sillier on smaller boats like a Lagoon 39, but stretched out like a HH66 and it is mouth-watering. On the other hand, it is easy to make a large boat look good. I think the Nautitech Open 40 that you posted struck a good balance, but the Bali 4.5 is awful. The new Leopards missed the mark widely, IMO. The Helia is a bit of a compromise with styling between older and newer, but I think they pulled it off OK. There are a few things about that boat that I don't like, but my limited experience with them is that it is a good overall boat.

But I'm not an architect, or even an architectural enthusiast. I have zero artistic abilities, and no confidence in my opinion in these matters.

Mark
That's the beauty/curse of architecture...no matter how scientific we try to make the justifications for design, when it comes to aesthetics it's ALWAYS purely subjective. I think that's why architecture is also a dying industry.

In any case so that readers know what we're talking about...

Shionning G-Force 1200


Bali 4.5


Lagoon 39


HH66


Leopard 45


Thanks for bringing up all these great examples. I didn't know about Schionning.
 

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The HH48 is not bad either (though not nearly as sexy as the 65)...



What's really interesting to me about it though is the dual steering...with the dual tiller steering outside...



...and the wheel steering inside...



And that "snake pit" in front of the wheel is also an interesting way to get the linework done in a protected space. That was directly from GunBoat wasn't it?

Anyone have pricing info for these?
 

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And what catamarans have self righted?

Bueller? Bueller?

Waiting to see just one that has....think I will be waiting for awhile
None that I know of. Not without significant mechanical help. Here's a good one...


And yet these cats are taking over the sailing market as we've clearly shown.

So, either the sailing world doesn't recognize or share your fears - or your fears are misplaced.

You just have to know how to sail them, Lazer. For example, do you know the story behind the video you posted? Do you know why they went over?
 

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Jeez I've got a lot to learn here. I had no freakin' idea there were so many multi builders and brands!

Balance 526
 

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Pictures of the increasing plethora of production cats are of interest to many. To me of more interest is a critique of these offerings beyond simple aesthetics. Would also be quite interested in how to mathematically judge these offerings. Resistance to pitchpoling as is as much an issue as “flipping over”, measures of motion in trying conditions and like measurements hold interest. As interesting as they are may I suggest again they do not belong in this thread. Smack as a gentleman I ask you again rather than divert this thread please start another to pursue this interest of yours,mine and I think others. If it’s just a picture book I’ll glance at it. If substantive I’ll follow it closely just like Paulo’s.
To date I think I can summarize your contribution to the OP as “cats have an increasing market share. This hurt Oyster. Here’s a bunch of pics of cats I like”.
Your point is made. Move on.
I think your point is wrong. Oyster moved away from the under 50’ market long ago. Those buying the boats in your pictures haven’t been the target buyer for Oyster for some years now. Those boats are in the 1/2 to 1 m range. Oysters market is in multiples of that amount. Perhaps those looking in the 1 to 2 m range were a very small segment of targeted Oyster buyers but I seriously doubt that had anything to do with their closure.
So regardless if one accepts your premise or not the pictures add little or nothing to THIS thread. A thread about multis would be fun. Go for it.
Out, if the mods want to move the discussion Mark and I are having to another thread that's fine with me. I tried to start one specific to multis and it was closed. So don't blame me.

I'm not starting anymore threads here on ComplainNet. I'm done with that. I'm just talking with others about things that interest me as the flow goes.

Your mention about pitchpoling is a good one. I have read a couple of stories about that and vaguely remember one that went over in the Bay of Biscay. I'll see if I can find that story.

The bottom line from what I recall is that you have to treat cats very differently in terms of speed control. For example, AWS is a critical factor - where it's not nearly as much on cruising monos. That's been one of the great things about following the SLV folks. Watching them explain those differences (after having them explained to them by Outremer).

And surfing is far more sketchy on multis - so speed control is far more critical in big conditions from what I've heard. Again, Mark can give much more detail here, and I'd love that kind of info as well.

Here is a 50'er in a tropical storm off Madagascar...


Seems well under control to me.

But here is a Lagoon 52 in 50 knots near Ibiza. This appears to be a new boat to this couple and to my eye they are seriously overpower/overspeeding as their bows are digging in (around 3:30)...


..and you can see that they even start stuffing the bows into the backs of waves in front of them. Not surprising when you see the max speed of 27.2 knots. That's not a controlled boat in my view.

I would seriously be looking at how to slow this boat in these conditions with a drogue or whatever it took. But again, I have no experience sailing these things, so I'm just looking, listening, and learning from those who know.
 

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This is a good example of speed control on a cat in heavy weather - see the drogue they're carrying...


They certainly seem relatively comfortable...even in this...

Cape Town to Brisbane through the Southern Ocean winter on a Leopard39, 64 days non-stop, 65kts+ winds.
Definitely blue water BTW.
 

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Another good video of a cat in a serious storm...this time with a sea anchor off the bow...


Survival suits and ready for capsize. Must have been a rough one. Videos after this so he seems to have done okay.
 
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