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How about this cruising cat? It doesn't appear to be holed, it's not a racer, it's a charter condo cat. It certainly wasn't safe for the sailors aboard even though it floated, they're missing.







https://www.enca.com/south-africa/missing-sunsail-found-agulhas


Amazing isn’t it? That’s a picture of the cat floating a year after it flipped. Now since you have about as much of a chance for a cruising cat to capsize as you do a monohull sink.....Those hulls look to be quite possibly livable and that’s a much easier target for rescuers to locate than a life raft.


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Amazing isn’t it? That’s a picture of the cat floating a year after it flipped. Now since you have about as much of a chance for a cruising cat to capsize as you do a monohull sink.....Those hulls look to be quite possibly livable and that’s a much easier target for rescuers to locate than a life raft.


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You obviously didn't read the article. All hands were lost.
 

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You obviously didn't read the article. All hands were lost.


Yes, I read about it when it happened. They went through a tropical cyclone, possibly fell of the boat when it capsized, could have lived on it for some amount of time but eventually perished, could have even been shortsighted enough to get in a life raft, who knows. I do love the fact that an overweight charter boat is able to float so high in the water, even after a year.


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The reality for even performance cruising catamarans of modest size is that any 20+kt achievements will be few and far between, and likely only because it is being pushed beyond safety. All of the youtube postings are more about singular instantaneous speeds surfing down waves than average speeds, or even regular occurrences.

Mark
This is a very, very important point - against what I personally think is a serious misconception by people who have never sailed a cat.

So, Mark, correct me if I'm wrong, but let me lay out why I think this misconception about multihulls and speed can be deadly...

Your exchange above shows a very interesting notion about the kinds of speeds cruising cats "can achieve". As you point out - this is not the kind of speed you'd ever sustain. But more to the point, you really would not want to. It is here that capsize and pitchpole start to become a real possibility. Let's look at an example...

In post #18 above, I linked in a video of a new Lagoon 52 (undoubtedly a cruising cat) in fairly intense gale (F9+). Now, just the thumbnail for this video below shows the immediate problem...this boat is hitting speeds of 27+ knots!



But here is the more critical underlying problem in this scenario...



This is a new boat for this couple. But they seem to be clueless as to the danger they are slipping into. To them, they are "breaking speed records" (back to the exchange in the SN post above.). But in reality, look at what is happening to these bows as they are doing this...





In this sequence that port bow in under water for a full 4 seconds! Just insane.



And now BOTH hulls are digging in.

In the midst of all this you can see the woman with a very concerned look on her face. The guys seem oblivious. Her gut is telling her something - as is mine.

Now, I've personally never sailed a cruising cat. But I have sailed the BFS Flagship FIASCO!



And when I start seeing rooster tails coming off the bows, I slow the hell down. Immediately. Because you only have to go through a pitchpole or two to understand that its not something that you want to do.

This is why, as I've read many times and places, drogues/warps are a very good thing on multihulls. When you're stuffing the bows of a 52' footer, you don't just sit inside and talk about the records your breaking. You put out something to slow you the hell down. Otherwise instead of "breaking records" - you're simply on your way to becoming a statistic.

Mark, smj, PDQ, others who know - what say ye? Are these guys flirting with disaster as much as I think they are?
 

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So ,the adrenaline rush ,just before you flip is what some seem to seak. They other end of wha th? is the charter cats in Thailand doing the goof on the reef. FRom our view point veranda we watch rented or skippered cats dance with rocks on the beach and anchor in secure crowds where it dries at low tide. Entertaining .
 

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I dont normally look at these cruising links, but 27 knots in a Lagoon got my attention. It was hard to tell in the vid where everybody was when, I couldnt tell if they were surfing over 20 kn in auto pilot or in hand. Doing those speeds in a cruising cat in autopilot would be pretty dumb, broaching at that speed could be catastrophic, a skilled helmsman might be able to pull a boat out of a broach at that speed, but an autopilot, not likely. Even in hand steering it looks really risky to me, dont think those lagoons were designed for planing speeds.
 

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Yes, I read about it when it happened. They went through a tropical cyclone, possibly fell of the boat when it capsized, could have lived on it for some amount of time but eventually perished, could have even been shortsighted enough to get in a life raft, who knows. I do love the fact that an overweight charter boat is able to float so high in the water, even after a year.


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Nope, just rough weather. Doesn't take much to make them invert.

And it's great that it's floating high for the boat, not so good for the sailors. You sell false security when you sell "how high it floats".
 

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Nope, just rough weather. Doesn't take much to make them invert.



And it's great that it's floating high for the boat, not so good for the sailors. You sell false security when you sell "how high it floats".


It’s obvious you know nothing of the incident and even more obvious you know absolutely nothing about catamarans. Enjoy whatever you sail and I hope it treats you well.


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Wrong Smack, no hurricane made the one on the west coast flip, just rough weather.

You love to obfuscate.
Okay...here is a snippet from the article you yourself posted...

Not much else is known at this point, other than the fact that the area near Cape Blanco was pummeled by 80 knot winds last week and that it's unlikely we will ever know exactly what happened or why the boat didn't seek shelter in the face of severe weather forecasts.
Look up 80 knots in the Beaufort Scale and tell me what you see.

Here is another snippet from another article that has a bit more detail...

The morning of Dec. 11, the forecast issued by the National Weather Service for the coastal waters between Florence and Cape Blanco, the area north of Cat Shot’s last recorded position, included a storm warning, a warning about hazardous seas, and winds predicted from the south at 50 knots, with gusts to 65 knots. Wind waves were to reach 12 to 15 feet, running into a west swell of 19 feet.

“Waves with a long fetch from the south intersecting with large westerly swells can lead to wave super-positioning,” says Sven Nelaimischkies, meteorologist of the marine program at the Medford, Ore., weather station. “If this happens, 15-foot waves can build to 45 feet or more.”

A month earlier, on Nov. 12, the 440-foot container ship Westwood Pomona was hit by a rogue wave in the same waters, a little farther offshore. The Associated Press reported that a 70-foot wave smashed several windows of the command bridge, injured one crewman, and damaged the ship’s primary electronics, forcing it to put into Coos Bay, Ore., for repairs.
F10-11 winds - but absolutely monstrous waves.

Where exactly is the obfuscation? In any case, there is already a thread for the kind of capsize stuff you're posting. Why don't you go post it in there?
 

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I dont normally look at these cruising links, but 27 knots in a Lagoon got my attention. It was hard to tell in the vid where everybody was when, I couldnt tell if they were surfing over 20 kn in auto pilot or in hand. Doing those speeds in a cruising cat in autopilot would be pretty dumb, broaching at that speed could be catastrophic, a skilled helmsman might be able to pull a boat out of a broach at that speed, but an autopilot, not likely. Even in hand steering it looks really risky to me, dont think those lagoons were designed for planing speeds.
Watching through the video it appears they were on AP.
 

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I agree, it did look that way (like they were on auto). There was the young guy sitting at the nav station. I wonder if there might be a joystick or an autopilot control there with dodges, yaw controls, auto over ride etc. Not the same as having somebody at the wheel but maybe enough to pull the boat out of a broach. It would be interesting to know.
 

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Sure, but on autopilot can mean a lot of different things. Were they in the salon watching reruns of gilligans island on autopilot, or did they have someone standing by the over ride. Surfing at 27 knots in a cruising cat, they would be pretty foolish not to have somebody keeping a close eye on things, whether they were lucky enough to survive or not.

https://ww2.bandg.com/product/triton2-autopilot-controller/
 

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In one of these threads I remember our discussion about swept-back spreaders being a major problem for extended passages - not really "blue water" worthy.

Well, above I posted a couple of videos from the Distant Shores TV people who took a Bluewater 50 across the Atlantic...and pointed out how Discovery Yachts bought Bluewater Cats as well as Southerly Yachts (which this couple has long-sailed).

Now as I mentioned at that time, you can see some similarities in the boat types and usages here across this Discovery line (lifting keel monos for very shallow draft, etc.). And I think most would say that Southerly and Discovery yachts are definitely fit for crossing oceans. This Distant Shores couple certainly would - and have many, many times. But in watching some of their videos I came across something eye-catching...

Here is a still from one of their many Atlantic crossings on their Southerly 49 I believe...



Notice anything?

So, again, all these various dictums about what's good and bad for ocean crossings are FAR more blurred than has been traditionally painted on sailing forums. There are a hell of a lot of swept-back spreaders out there. I would just much prefer mine to be on a multi.
 
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