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There is a diminishing return. My AP has steered 10s of thousands of miles... coastal, off shore. It's not perfect but it does better than I do and doesn't need rest or food. The course plots are damn good... But sure there is some wandering.

The AP does not have the full range of helm rotation.... it basically MOSTLY makes rather small course corrections based on whatever data it is using. If I wanted to turn hard over instantly.... AP can't do it. I can manually.

So for example when I approach the fuel dock in NPT... I approach heading south in the channel and make a tight as possible 180 even using reverse to kick the stern over. Not possible with the AP. Tight AP 180 won't work because there is not enough sea room... I use AP until I am ready to execute the turn. I doubt a new gen AP would do this.

I see little reason to "upspec".... but I would need to experience it to make the determination.
I'm not sure many would want to use their AP to go to a fuel dock. We use ours for almost everything, but will dock the boat by hand. Also not sure how many would require their AP to go hard over instantly.

On the other hand, our AP has full range stop-to-stop control of the helm, and a 5 second hard over time. With a push of a single button it goes into manual mode, where holding down the buttons moves it about as fast as I can. If we had the other controller, it has a knob for steering like this.

I believe I could dock it using just the AP, but it is much easier to use the wheel based on the motion efficiency alone. Underway, if we need to dodge something, the AP can turn the boat 90* in 2-3 seconds. Our AP can auto tack and has adjustable tack times. Ours is set for 6 seconds, and it does go through tacks that fast. It could go faster, but catamarans don't tack that fast.

Mark
 

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This is a great post cape...my thoughts below...

So I have an honest question for you multi-guys, which I'll setup with a Disclaimer and my specific limited cat experiences:

DISCLAIMER:
Anyone who wants to sail anything, i'm on your side. To me, the argument over who's form of fun is better than they other guys fun for an absolutely unnecessary frivolous activity like sailing is, well, a debate for people who apparently aren't getting enough conflict in their lives. The real question is will anybody be left sailing anything 50 years from now, or will they all be sitting in their living rooms wearing VR googles and getting pizza delivery by drone, while arguing about what VR experience is better than another on social media :).
Yes, there will be sailing. From everything I see, there are more young people getting into sailing now than there has been for decades. I think that's because the used boat market it absolutely flush with "cheap" boats. But they are also getting into much higher end boats because a large chunk of of them have far more spending power then ever in history for this group (have you seen what a software developer pulls down in salaray?).

So, no worries.

So, with that disclaimer, I'll undo my own argument by stepping into the fray:

MY CAT EXPERIENCE:
Is my perception wrong about cruising cats? I've only chartered them twice, once in Belize and once in the BVI. I found that even when I was going 8 knots, I felt like I was sailing my dock. I had to look at the water rushing by or I'd think I was still tied up. It just didn't do it for me. That said, anchored up with my friends, it was a wicked good party platform and comfortable living. Not to mention, didn't even need to put my beer in a holder underway.

At the other end of the spectrum, I really enjoyed when I was younger getting out on the trapeze on a Hobie 16. What a blast. Yea, I read smack and others experienced pitch poles, and yea I did too. As a teen ager swinging up in the air when a hull went in was exciting. Gotta get your weight aft when a hull flies and it really goes.

THE QUESTION:
So the question is, are their cruising cats that aren't like sailing your dock? More like the Hobie, a bit more civilized, without turning into a barge with a mast on it? That might interest me. Anyplace I can charter one?
All I can add here is from the beachcat to mono perspective. What you describe is very similar to what actually happens as you go up in size for monos. Going from a C27 with a tiller, to a Pacific Seacraft 37 with a wheel felt like "losing touch" with the performance through the water. Yet, when you think about maintaining that level of "touch" over hundreds of miles 24/7 for days on end? No thanks. I'll leave that to the beachcat.

It was the same going to our Hunter 40. It felt slower and far less responsive at first until I got ITS feel. It wasn't slower or less responsive - actually the opposite.

So, though I can't tell you about this phenomenon on cruising cats, I have a hunch it's very much the same.
 

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Edit: I see now that this AP controller shows in the video. While I wouldn't be doing those speeds in that boat, I would have no problem letting this AP have complete control. It is better than I am. Remotes are useless for instantaneous steering, like one is proposing necessary in the video conditions. They are fine for course changes, dodging, and the like - but not as a substitute for hand steering in large conditions. Leave that to the AP.
Just noticed this. Not sure when the last time you took a big broach in big weather on a big boat was, its not a guaranteed game ender, but stuff can get real fast. Stuff can break, rig can break, breakers might trip, people might fall. The boat might actually exceed a 90 degree course correction. If you have no one near the over ride, the auto pilot will do what auto pilots do, turn you back on course, back down wind, you will pick up speed again, maybe broach again, maybe stuff again, then you have more stuff breaking, more people falling.

Helmsman sitting at a control station or with a portable over ride on his person may decide the best escape from the broach is to temporarily turn up wind, slow the boat down, even if its just for 30 seconds so people can get back on their feet, he may decide to turn beam to the sea, or sail diagonally down the wave to scrub some speed. Your auto pilot that you insist on setting and forgetting can not do this.

You may convince the readers that surfing big boats in big seas that setting and forgetting the auto pilot is a good move, but you will not convince me it is, no need to even try.
 

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I think the disconnect in this ongoing conversation really has very little to do with the autopilot - whatever brand and technology we're talking about. The problem is that this boat was out of control. The human intervention, first and foremost, should have been in getting the boat slowed down. Until that happened, it doesn't matter what kind of AP they had or how awesome it was.

That, I believe, is what Mark is saying - as am I.

Vendee boats do 27+ knots pretty easily for tens of thousands of miles on their APs. They are not Leopard 50 cruising cats. So it's not about the AP.
I guess you missed it, I have stated these folks are sailing on the edge. The auto pilot might not be relevant to you, but if you are going to exceed safe sailing speed, keep your finger on the AP over ride. Not sure how this message got missed.
 

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That's good feedback. Yes, my experience has been on older units. I know that the Vendee boats rely almost exclusively on AP (Lecomble & Schmitt I believe) - so I have no doubt that the technology has come a long, long way.

I guess what bugs me so much about that video is that they are sitting inside watching as the boat - at least to my eye - gets increasingly out of control. And they are talking about "breaking records". To me, and please let me know if this is wrong, they are completely disconnected from reality. It just looks like they are, as you say, "leaving it to the AP" - but their problem isn't steering - it's boat control. Therefore, it seems they are asking FAR too much of that AP and should be DOING something to maintain safety.
Lecomble and Schmitt only make hydraulic drive units. I believe the autopilots on all of those boats are either B&G or NKE. These two brands are pretty much all professional racing boats use, and the technology is carried down into their consumer products (the important and proprietary parts are mostly just algorithms and software after all).

I agree, and have tried to state in different ways that there is no way we would find ourselves in that state. I don't know why the discussion got focused on autopilots and how to use them properly when doing 27kts in bad seas in a production catamaran - autopilots are completely beside the point here, and are rather like debating the car stereo while doing 100mph on an icy road with bald tires.

The boat shouldn't be allowed in that state period. If it was properly set to a reasonable speed, their would be no danger regardless of the quality of the autopilot.

Mark
 

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Just noticed this. Not sure when the last time you took a big broach in big weather on a big boat was, its not a guaranteed game ender, but stuff can get real fast. Stuff can break, rig can break, breakers might trip, people might fall. The boat might actually exceed a 90 degree course correction. If you have no one near the over ride, the auto pilot will do what auto pilots do, turn you back on course, back down wind, you will pick up speed again, maybe broach again, maybe stuff again, then you have more stuff breaking, more people falling.

Helmsman sitting at a control station or with a portable over ride on his person may decide the best escape from the broach is to temporarily turn up wind, slow the boat down, even if its just for 30 seconds so people can get back on their feet, he may decide to turn beam to the sea, or sail diagonally down the wave to scrub some speed. Your auto pilot that you insist on setting and forgetting can not do this.

You may convince the readers that surfing big boats in big seas that setting and forgetting the auto pilot is a good move, but you will not convince me it is, no need to even try.
I don't know why you keep saying that I insist on setting and forgetting the AP while doing 27kts in those conditions. I have stated repeatedly that our boat will never find itself in that state. You seem to be creating the argument.

Once the boat has turned far off course, or steering control is lost, our AP sounds a loud alarm and tries to hold course - it does not try to go back to the original course. Our AP also tries to not steer down waves in a reactive mode such that the boat is yawing. It steers like a helmsman by feeling the point before the bow yaws and applying early rudder to compensate. In the trough, it does the same to bring it back before it yaws.

I don't know of many people who can recover a boat from a broach. Generally the physics overwhelms the steering foils and the best anyone can do is let the boat get on its feet and proceed from there. On a mono, the rudder and most of the keel isn't even in the water. This is not the case for a catamaran.

I don't understand why you are wound up on this AP thing? The video does not represent catamarans in general or any catamaran owner I know. The use of the AP is inconsequential to the situation they are in. My feeling is that a helmsman could not do a single thing differently than their AP to avoid, or get them out of, trouble. The video, IMO, only represents someone operating their boat unsafely - and the AP has nothing to do with that. Why aren't you picking on the full sail set instead?

BTW, broaching is rare on a catamaran because they tend to slide in those conditions. It is more a monohull thing. Pitchpoling from burying a bow is more likely in a catamaran.

Mark
 

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How do you avoid tornadoes when you are cruising? Even in relatively tame (weather-wise) Maryland we have tornadoes all the time. I would imagine they are more common in Florida and the Gulf. Case in point: summer before last when I was coming up the Bay (cruising!), the weather started to look pretty threatening and I was pondering if I should hunker down for a bit in the Severn River. Well, the decision was made for me when the CG came up on 16 with a tornado warning (not watch) for -- tadaa-- the Severn River!

I stayed in the middle of the Bay and things went well, never saw the tornado though A LOT of wind, thunder and lightning. I certainly don't want to get hit by a tornado at any time and I would expect very severe damage to my boat including dismasting. But I do not expect that it flips upside down (and stays there) or sinks. And you consider this normal for a catamaran, and that at anchor, with no sails up?

So, my point is, a boat for which encountering a tornado is "far beyond the envelope" is by definition not a boat for cruising.
Well, keep in mind that I live in Texas and we had our boat in Florida. So tornadoes and major-storms/hurricanes are relatively common in our lives. Avoiding hurricanes is not that hard as I've discussed in my videos. You get off or stay off the boat after making it as secure as you can. In that case, boats of all kinds are still destroyed - but you are safe.

But again, that's not "cruising". That's simply a place where boats are sitting (either on the hard or in the water) getting hit and destroyed. So the type or make of boat doesn't matter. That's what we're seeing in the above examples here and why I'm not sure they really mean much to this discussion. Cruising, at least the kind where you travel longer distances from place to place, typically happens away from these anchorages in the examples.

Now, avoiding tornadoes can be very easy as well, or impossible. Every Texas and Florida sailor knows the maxim "Never cruise in Kansas". And we all pretty much stick to that. If you run the numbers, you'll see that there have been very few cruising sailors killed in Kansas by either tornadoes or hurricanes in either monohulls or multihulls. Heh-heh.

On the other hand, it can be impossible to avoid in JUST the right circumstance - like getting hit by lightning...especially if you're relatively close to land where thunderstorms can be far more powerful (like your example which I would equate to sailing in Galveston Bay like we used to do - but I wouldn't call that cruising).

We got fairly up-close to one (actually a big waterspout) while cruising off the coast of Florida...



Now, just like lightning, had this thing been coming right at us I don't think we could have avoided it. And had we gotten a direct hit - who knows what could have happened. And, to the point I think you and others are trying to make, it would have potentially been more dangerous in a cat simply because air can get under the central platform and make the boat fly (though that's impossible to say for sure). This is what I assume happened to that other boat shown in the Florida video that was hit by the tornado - and maybe even that Prout that Noelex mentioned.

But, I personally don't buy boats for their tornado or hurricane performance. I have no interest in that. I buy them to cruise. Our Hunter did very well on the hard in a direct strike from Category 2 Irma - and we were safe at home. But there were also a few cats in the same yard that did just as well. So, again, I'm not sure what that has to do with cruising.

As for the tornado, we got lucky. I think Charlie Doane frames your concerns about this best in that article on the CWD capsize I linked above...

Discussing the event with Charles Nethersole, it really did sound to me like the purest piece of bad luck a bluewater sailor could ever hope to encounter, as though God himself, with no warning, had suddenly decided to poke you with a finger and squash you like a bug.
Indeed. Thar be dragons - and they don't care what kind of boat you're on.
 

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The real question is will anybody be left sailing anything 50 years from now, or will they all be sitting in their living rooms wearing VR googles and getting pizza delivery by drone, while arguing about what VR experience is better than another on social media :)
Hehe. We have a friend cruising in a catamaran and he is anchored next to us right now. He just sold his virtual reality company, but is still working with the new owners in transition. He has top of the line computers and gear on his boat for doing his work. Those computers use 50-80 amps when rendering and displaying, and he has sensors installed about his boat that track movements.

When we go over there, we put on the headsets, the haptic feedback gear, and .... watch sailing!

Sometimes. He has a lot of footage of his boat under sail. Other times we are flying with the Blue Angels, or exploring Google Earth, or (my favorite) running around with the Miami Dolphin cheerleaders as they bounce about and go to the beach.

So maybe the future will be people sitting in their boats wearing VR googles!

Mark
 

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Mark - can you explain the more subtle differences in docking between a two-engine cat and a mono? I have to admit I was never the perfect docker on our mono. We always backed into slips, and ~5% of the time I would be carrying too much speed, or not aligned correctly, or whatever.

It seems you have much more fine control over a cat - both in terms of the engines, but also in terms of dealing with the momentum. Being able to literally spin the boat on a dime, and not have to mess with back-and-fill like on a mono, sounds pretty dreamy.
 

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How are you 2 saying I am stuck on APs. Somebody posted a vid of a big cruising cat surfing at 27 knots and I made one post basically saying I thought it would be foolish to leave that boat doing those speeds with an auto pilot in complete control of the boat. Then you two responded with pages of posts trying to prove me wrong, and it isnt working. I still think its foolish.

I disagree that a big cat wont broach. There are physics at play here and those physics dont necessarily point to a 60 000 lb boat doing a stern over bow somersault down a wave front. When the bow stuffs it stops, the inertia in the 60000 lb boat wants to keep going, gavity wants the stern to stay down so that inertia could result in a horizontal rotation instead of a vertical rotation, thus resulting in a broach.

I know this isnt painting a very pretty picture of some of the challenges that can be faced by some boats in heavy weather, but its how it is. In conditions like that it really is a good idea to slow the boat down. Failing slowing the boat down, at least try to keep her under control, you do that in part by steering, not all, but some broaches can be recovered from, but not generally by an autopilot.
 

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What upsets me about this thread and many threads on this forum is how some neglect a basic reality that underpins most cruisers mentality when thinking about boats. This reality extends across all classes be it monos,multis or motor.

There are good seaboats and those not so much.

Comparisons between classes of boats is foolish if not also accounting for if that specific craft is a good or bad seaboat. Grand Banks are wonderful, beautiful, comfortable great loop or coastal cruisers. Sea rays give great bang for the buck. Neither are designed to be or are expedition yachts.
You can blow big bucks and get an light ice Diesel Duck 492 for less than the glorious GB but only the first is the rtw boat. You can quadruple the purchase price and walk on a Seaton or Cape Scott and get the bling with the sea keeping ability to sail the Southern ocean.
The same occurs with monos or multis.

Looking at the title of this thread believe we should be looking at specific boats and critiqueing that specific design. Multis have several vulnerabilities as do monos or motor. This obsession about inverting limits this thread to one of many concerns so is much less informative than it could be.
Look at the various cats you see in Caribbean charter. These are like the Searays. Even in that relatively benign setting one sees:
They hobby horse. When motoring to windward( such as entering an anchorage) this is so extreme as to be dangerous to the occupants. Their beam to length ratio is moderate but capsize risk decreased by moderate rigs. They aim toward one level living with large expanses of glass. But a violent pooping may result in failure of the aft glass enclosure or its rim of support leading to down flooding. The steering is designed for the stresses of forward movement. Falling backwards after being stalled on the face of a wave may result in catastrophic steering failure. Interior living space is optimized for pleasant living at anchor with bridge deck forward of the mast and beam of hulls brought forward to allow a four berth set up. Beyond unpleasant burping the behavior in a seaway is compromised. They have low aspect fixed keels. Beyond decreasing ability to point increased possibilities of “tripping” on a large wave face is increased. Helm position is high and exposed. This is tiring to the helmsman and compromises ability to see the whole boat.

Now compare this to a boat designed as a seaboat. Perhaps the Rapido 60referred to above.
Single rudder. No linkage issues. Very fine hulls and very wide beam with much more force required to turn turtle. No significant structure beyond central hull before the mast. Daggerboard no fixed keel. Protected helm station. Walkways and rig designed to be worked in a seaway. No large glass expanses vulnerable in a pooping or from green water.

In short just like a Diesel Duck would seem to be a better seaboat than a Searay the R60 would seem to be a better seaboat than the charter cat.
I see you have read Chris White's Cruising in Multihulls book. It is a good start, but is pretty dated now, and only represents a single viewpoint among many different ones from very qualified designers and builders.

I have avoided responding to some of your posts in other threads because your information is just too twisted up and poorly presented to try and untangle and add context.

But I would like to point out here that your assumptions about, and categorizing/grouping of, production catamarans and their designs is just wrong on many, many levels. I could spend a page or two just unwinding this post. Like how a good sea boat should have a single rudder, and that single rudders do not have any linkages to fail and that a very wide beam is good. Good grief - that is a general lack of understanding of catamarans, steering systems, and dynamic stability.

Production cruising catamaran designers and engineers include Morelli and Melvin, Marc Van Peteghem and Vincent Lauriot-Prévost, Eric LeRouge, Jeff Schionning, Angelo Lavranos, Phil Southwell, Alex Simonis, Kurt Hughes, and many other extremely qualified people. Many of their designs and philosophy are in contrast to Chris White's, and they have a more extensive portfolio and experience.

I suggest you take your good start at understanding catamarans and their designs (his book is where I started), and allow yourself to push further into the topic with a more open mind. A lot has developed since 1990, when Chris White wrote his book.

BTW, do you realize that more Chris White catamarans have capsized than any other builder/model? That isn't even taking into account that there are 100 times fewer Chris White boats than other builders. While the total number of catamaran capsizes while not racing is extremely small, Chris White designs do hold that record.

FWIW, I like Chris White designs.

Mark
 

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How are you 2 saying I am stuck on APs. Somebody posted a vid of a big cruising cat surfing at 27 knots and I made one post basically saying I thought it would be foolish to leave that boat doing those speeds with an auto pilot in complete control of the boat. Then you two responded with pages of posts trying to prove me wrong, and it isnt working. I still think its foolish.

I disagree that a big cat wont broach. There are physics at play here and those physics dont necessarily point to a 60 000 lb boat doing a stern over bow somersault down a wave front. When the bow stuffs it stops, the inertia in the 60000 lb boat wants to keep going, gavity wants the stern to stay down so that inertia could result in a horizontal rotation instead of a vertical rotation, thus resulting in a broach.

I know this isnt painting a very pretty picture of some of the challenges that can be faced by some boats in heavy weather, but its how it is. In conditions like that it really is a good idea to slow the boat down. Failing slowing the boat down, at least try to keep her under control, you do that in part by steering, not all, but some broaches can be recovered from, but not generally by an autopilot.
I never posted anything trying to prove you wrong that the boat was out of control and the autopilot was handling it perfectly. I can't count the posts now where I've stated in several ways that I thought the people on that boat were foolish to be operating it that way.

I just posted a bit about modern AP's being different than older ones - more predictive and faster responses. I never stated that putting the boat in danger and then relinquishing the helm to an unsupervised AP was reasonable. You have been making that argument, not me.

I stand by what I say about broaching in a catamaran being rarer than in a mono, and pitchpoling being a greater worry. There is a huge geometry and design different between a mono and catamaran in terms of underwater appendages, control surfaces, prismatic coefficients, overall beam, and several other considerations. The reality is that a "broach" on a catamaran, if it occurs, will be gentler and more controlled than on a monohull. It will be more like a slide on a slippery driveway than falling over a cliff like a mono. Pitchpole, on the other hand, is where the catamaran design and geometry work against it.

You are also guessing that not all broaches can be prevented or recovered from under AP, and that they can under human hands. I don't subscribe to this, and doubt you have any statistics or even empirical evidence.

But again, this is completely silly because it is a stupid stunt and doesn't represent catamaran sailing at all. Not any more than a stupid stunt on a monohull represents all of mono sailing. Nor do either represent limitations of either types of boats.

The AP has nothing at all to do with anything about this. It seems like you are intentionally being argumentative.

Mark
 

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I continue to be amazed at the level of comfort on a cat while underway. Here is a Lagoon 400 sailing across the Indian Ocean from Cocos Keeling to Chagos...


Now, though I think Delos had better overall weather on this same passage judging by the videos - compare the level of fatigue/sickness of the crew to the above family, and keep in mind that there are 7 young and fit crew on Delos for watches, etc. - and just the mom and dad and kids on the Lagoon...


Good comparison I think. I would take the Lagoon over the Amel any day. Though I have to say, these videos make it obvious that multhull sailors can't make a good video to save their lives. I'll have to fix that.
 

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I was not talking hurricanes but tornadoes. Why do you bring up hurricanes?

On the other hand, it can be impossible to avoid [tornadoes] in JUST the right circumstance - like getting hit by lightning...especially if you're relatively close to land where thunderstorms can be far more powerful (like your example which I would equate to sailing in Galveston Bay like we used to do - but I wouldn't call that cruising).
You wouldn't call it cruising if you are 'relatively close to land'? When you are cruising you never get within the sight of land? Don't be ridiculous.

Now, just like lightning, had this thing been coming right at us I don't think we could have avoided it. And had we gotten a direct hit - who knows what could have happened. And, to the point I think you and others are trying to make, it would have potentially been more dangerous in a cat simply because air can get under the central platform and make the boat fly (though that's impossible to say for sure). This is what I assume happened to that other boat shown in the Florida video that was hit by the tornado - and maybe even that Prout that Noelex mentioned.
That is EXACTLY the point I was making.

But, I personally don't buy boats for their tornado or hurricane performance. I have no interest in that. I buy them to cruise. Our Hunter did very well on the hard in a direct strike from Category 2 Irma - and we were safe at home. But there were also a few cats in the same yard that did just as well. So, again, I'm not sure what that has to do with cruising.
Let me repeat what I said: it is IMPOSSIBLE to entirely avoid tornadoes while you are cruising, except if you are doing polar expeditions or something. Taking into account how a boat deals with potentially dangerous situations is, in my book, an essential part of good seamanship.

What does it have to do with this discussion that your Hunter was not destroyed in a hurricane while it was sitting on the hard?
 

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I'm not sure many would want to use their AP to go to a fuel dock. We use ours for almost everything, but will dock the boat by hand. Also not sure how many would require their AP to go hard over instantly.

On the other hand, our AP has full range stop-to-stop control of the helm, and a 5 second hard over time. With a push of a single button it goes into manual mode, where holding down the buttons moves it about as fast as I can. If we had the other controller, it has a knob for steering like this.

I believe I could dock it using just the AP, but it is much easier to use the wheel based on the motion efficiency alone. Underway, if we need to dodge something, the AP can turn the boat 90* in 2-3 seconds. Our AP can auto tack and has adjustable tack times. Ours is set for 6 seconds, and it does go through tacks that fast. It could go faster, but catamarans don't tack that fast.

Mark
2-3 seconds is not fast enough in an emergency...
I don't dock with an AP... and the way I dock using reverse to kick the stern over is not possible either.
AP provides course corrections and they are very tiny in a sea way... It can tack but not hard over as the AP does not turn stop to stop...
I adapt to its limitations
 

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I stand by what I say about broaching in a catamaran being rarer than in a mono, and pitchpoling being a greater worry. There is a huge geometry and design different between a mono and catamaran in terms of underwater appendages, control surfaces, prismatic coefficients, overall beam, and several other considerations. The reality is that a "broach" on a catamaran, if it occurs, will be gentler and more controlled than on a monohull. It will be more like a slide on a slippery driveway than falling over a cliff like a mono. Pitchpole, on the other hand, is where the catamaran design and geometry work against it.

You are also guessing that not all broaches can be prevented or recovered from under AP, and that they can under human hands. I don't subscribe to this, and doubt you have any statistics or even empirical evidence.
I am not guessing at anything here. Catamarans can and do broach and I have been there when it happens. I said a human may be better able to steer out of a broach I didnt say an auto pilot would never steer out of a broach. If I am not using absolute statements, then my meaning is not absolute. There is no need to look for hidden meanings in my posts, I am saying exactly what I am thinking.

Yes, I recognise that pitch poles are bad, I am not saying they aren't.

If you want statistical evidence on everything I post, please support everything you say with statistical information. This is a discussion forum, I am offering my opinion, if I wasnt, this would be a pretty one sided conversation.
 

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Okay Mast.

I'm in this thread to talk about cruising cats. That's all. A couple of the capsize examples above are from hurricanes which is why I mentioned it. To be clear, I don't hold that multis are great boats for hurricanes or tornadoes regardless of where the boat is in proximity to land.

Apart from that, I'm not interested in arguing. I'm trying to get info from multi sailors about multis.
 

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I've spent enough time on multi's.

Tell us, how do you handle this, on a multi, at night, with a short crew inside and sheets cleated off? Anna, Leopard and Fujin come to mind.

We're talking good and bad right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=valA6iqyzzk
You do exactly what he did. You ease the sheets (though he sure waited a long time to do that). But more importantly, you pay closer attention to the weather and prep your sails accordingly. The helmsman wasn't doing that. There are a million multi videos out there that show how it should be done.

The only correlation to Anna, Leopard and Fujin I see here is that these people were over-canvassed and reacted way too late. It sounds like that's what happened with Anna and, perhaps, Fujin since it was racing. The G4 capsize was definitely due to the same issue of not blowing the sheet at the right time. Leapoard got hit by a tornadic burst - a completely different bucket of monkeys.
 
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