My friend is buying a boat, previous owner owes slip fees so...
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There must be a contract between the PO and the marina. The answer should be found there.
It is possible to attach liability to the boat, but the most likely relationship is directly between the PO and the marina. IOW, it is the PO's liability, not a new owner's. But likewise, the new owner likely does not inherit any right to the slip either.
It is possible to attach liability to the boat, but the most likely relationship is directly between the PO and the marina. IOW, it is the PO's liability, not a new owner's. But likewise, the new owner likely does not inherit any right to the slip either.
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Yikes!!!!!
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Yes! Your friend may be up for those liabilities and anything else attached to the boat. Different countries / states /provinces may all have different laws and differeing contracts.
As it appears you are in the US I will leave this to others to give you their thoughts (which is not "Advice" in the legal sense
)
Mark
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Yes! Your friend may be up for those liabilities and anything else attached to the boat. Different countries / states /provinces may all have different laws and differeing contracts.
As it appears you are in the US I will leave this to others to give you their thoughts (which is not "Advice" in the legal sense
)Mark
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I would imagine You could talk to the marina especially if you are Interested in keeping the boat there, and work a deal on reduction of the sales price to square up the money owed to the marina.
It’s possible that the marina could have already attached a lien to the boat.
Here is the verbiage from my slip contract.
17. LIENS AND SALE: Paradise Marina shall have a possessory lien against the boat, to secure any rent, additional rent, or any amount due and unpaid under the terms of this Lease or for any other monetary amounts which may be owed by Boat Owner to Paradise Marina. The lien shall attach to the boat and personal property on or about the boat including, but not limited to, furniture, electronic equipment, tackle, appliances and apparel. Paradise Marina shall enforce its lien in compliance with the laws of the State of Maryland.
It’s possible that the marina could have already attached a lien to the boat.
Here is the verbiage from my slip contract.
17. LIENS AND SALE: Paradise Marina shall have a possessory lien against the boat, to secure any rent, additional rent, or any amount due and unpaid under the terms of this Lease or for any other monetary amounts which may be owed by Boat Owner to Paradise Marina. The lien shall attach to the boat and personal property on or about the boat including, but not limited to, furniture, electronic equipment, tackle, appliances and apparel. Paradise Marina shall enforce its lien in compliance with the laws of the State of Maryland.
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I'd be very careful here If I were your friend. 1st of all, can you be a little more specific, when you say the PO owes slip fees? How much in arrears is he? Is this a private sale, or is it going through a broker?
Mike is right, there's probably a contract involved, and that language will be important. The Marina could slap a lien on the boat in which case your friend wouldn't get a clear title.
The Three parties need to come to an agreement on the Yard Bill. The PO could theoretically settle the bill out of the proceeds of the sale at the time of closing. How that works without a broker, I'm not sure. I suppose your friend could write two checks. One for the boat, minus the yard bill, and the other to the yard. I wouldn't pay the sales price for the boat to the PO and trust the PO to pay the yard.
I'd also be concerned that there's no other liens or encumbrances.
Mike is right, there's probably a contract involved, and that language will be important. The Marina could slap a lien on the boat in which case your friend wouldn't get a clear title.
The Three parties need to come to an agreement on the Yard Bill. The PO could theoretically settle the bill out of the proceeds of the sale at the time of closing. How that works without a broker, I'm not sure. I suppose your friend could write two checks. One for the boat, minus the yard bill, and the other to the yard. I wouldn't pay the sales price for the boat to the PO and trust the PO to pay the yard.
I'd also be concerned that there's no other liens or encumbrances.
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Thanks for the replies guys. From what i understand it's a couple thousand owed. It's a private sale so no broker involved. I suppose my bud maybe able to find out if a lien is placed on the boat. If not, he's probably cleared. I'm sure he could simply contact the marina and find out more. He was asking me and i wasn't total sure how it worked, i dont want to see him getting a bad deal.
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Nor do we want to see the marina not collecting monies rightfully owed under a binding contract.
I imagine that a Lien could be placed on a vessel after it has been sold and retitled. I’m sure there is a legal precedence, and I’d hate to be the new owner of a boatwith a yard bill hanging over it.
Tempest has the right idea. All three parties need to sit down and figure it out.
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We don't know all the circumstances. If it's a private sale the Marina may not be aware that the boat is being sold. It's possible that the PO was a good customer and the Marina was being patient.
How did your friend know that the PO owed money? Sounds strange. The PO says my boat is for sale and oh by the way I owe the Marina money, and you have to pay them?
The way my summer slip works is that I sign a contract and pay 50% by Jan. and 50 % by April 30 or launch, whichever comes 1st.
If I sold my boat in March, and the new owner wanted to stay in the slip, and the Marina agreed, I suppose they'd have to pay "at least" the 2nd 50% ( which was a few grand). But all that would be spelled out in the contract.
AFAIK liens attach to property. The marina may have already mailed out a " notice of intent to file" to the PO. Once they get wind of a sale, they may file on the Property ( the boat)
How did your friend know that the PO owed money? Sounds strange. The PO says my boat is for sale and oh by the way I owe the Marina money, and you have to pay them?
The way my summer slip works is that I sign a contract and pay 50% by Jan. and 50 % by April 30 or launch, whichever comes 1st.
If I sold my boat in March, and the new owner wanted to stay in the slip, and the Marina agreed, I suppose they'd have to pay "at least" the 2nd 50% ( which was a few grand). But all that would be spelled out in the contract.
AFAIK liens attach to property. The marina may have already mailed out a " notice of intent to file" to the PO. Once they get wind of a sale, they may file on the Property ( the boat)
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Well the PO said that he was behind on slip fees so he wasn't hiding that fact. I'm going to tell my bud to contact the marina and tell them he's looking to buy the boat and confirm how much is actually owed, it could be possible the PO already spoke with them. My bud shouldn't be responsible for those back fees, unless it's taken out of the sale price and he just pays what is owed. I'm sure it will work out, but all the pieces need to come together, this is the first time he's buying a sailboat. His last boat was a 20ft center console on a trailer so he's never delt with marinas.
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Good point about the lien. It should be easy to find out, and I would definitely do so. That could put your friend in a pickle of a legal predicament.
It sure smells bad that the seller is trying to stiff the marina, or get the new owner (your friend) to pay his tab. This would raise a major red flag for me about buying this boat.
As a matter of good will, the current owner should commit to using some of the proceeds from the sale to clear his tab with the marina. It's not like he can cry poverty -- not unless he owes more than the boat is worth.
It sure smells bad that the seller is trying to stiff the marina, or get the new owner (your friend) to pay his tab. This would raise a major red flag for me about buying this boat.
As a matter of good will, the current owner should commit to using some of the proceeds from the sale to clear his tab with the marina. It's not like he can cry poverty -- not unless he owes more than the boat is worth.
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Definitely something to work out AHEAD of time. If the marina finds out the boat has been sold and they haven't been paid, it is very simple for them to chain the boat to the dock and call the sheriff's office to place the lien afterwards.
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One problem is the sellers perception.
If he is selling his boat and thinks its "worth" say $50,000 he is not including the marina costs. It's human behaviour. So he still wants his $50,000 even if he owes $5,000. Different sides of his brain / different money.
This is why, I feel, the vendor needs to clear the account before the purchaser puts in an offer.
Mark
If he is selling his boat and thinks its "worth" say $50,000 he is not including the marina costs. It's human behaviour. So he still wants his $50,000 even if he owes $5,000. Different sides of his brain / different money.
This is why, I feel, the vendor needs to clear the account before the purchaser puts in an offer.
Mark
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Here is your free legal advice for the day: 1) look at the contract, and 2) if that does not clarify, ask a local lawyer.
We can speculate about who is the bad guy here. There are many reasons for a person defaulting. I knew a person whose kid was dying and he let everything go. I didn't mind helping him stiff a few creditors. Bank of America didn't have a sick kid; they'll be fine. He didn't need to worry about paying a credit card when he was wondering how he was going to bury his kid. Point is, since we don't know who did what, we can't really speculate. Could be the marina did something wrong. Could be the PO is a dick.
Just look at the contract and maybe call a lawyer. You may even find some halfway decent information for free if you google. Lots of lawyers have blogs about this kind of thing. Just make sure the law blog you are reading is in the relevant state.
And don't read Bob Loblaw's Law Blog.
We can speculate about who is the bad guy here. There are many reasons for a person defaulting. I knew a person whose kid was dying and he let everything go. I didn't mind helping him stiff a few creditors. Bank of America didn't have a sick kid; they'll be fine. He didn't need to worry about paying a credit card when he was wondering how he was going to bury his kid. Point is, since we don't know who did what, we can't really speculate. Could be the marina did something wrong. Could be the PO is a dick.
Just look at the contract and maybe call a lawyer. You may even find some halfway decent information for free if you google. Lots of lawyers have blogs about this kind of thing. Just make sure the law blog you are reading is in the relevant state.
And don't read Bob Loblaw's Law Blog.
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Include all three parties in the discussion. The goal should be to make everyone satisfied. The seller might negotiate with the marina to accept less than the full amount of rent. The marina might accept less if they get it out of the sale proceeds. The seller might be satisfied to receive most of the purchase price. If your friend gets the boat he expects for a price he considers reasonable, he should be satisfied. Your friend should proceed with caution in dealing with any person who is in financial distress.
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you know Tempest is making points of a lawyer or someone who is familiar with this situation! If you look at the trajectory of their argument, I would say there are likely other things wrong with this situation (maybe a blown motor, maybe some other sketchy stuff) the PO didn’t disclose because they didn’t have to!
I don’t like stinky lines and this one has a couple. If I were your friend, I’d walk away. There are a lot of boats.
I don’t like stinky lines and this one has a couple. If I were your friend, I’d walk away. There are a lot of boats.
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If seller refuses to engage in a 3-way discussion, then your friend should consider walking (given the apparent ill will of the seller). If your friend wants to get some leverage over the seller, he should simply go to the marina owner himself and tell him the boat is up for sale and he is considering buying it, and asking for his "assistance" in making sure everyone is made whole. I guarantee you that will pretty much ensure that the marina bill is paid by the current owner before he sells it.
Of course, if this seller is trying to stiff the marina, your friend should be extra cautious that there isn't also a mechanic's lien, tax lien, or ex-wife's lien against the boat. The experience of a broker could be helpful here, and might be less expensive than hiring a maritime lawyer.
Of course, if this seller is trying to stiff the marina, your friend should be extra cautious that there isn't also a mechanic's lien, tax lien, or ex-wife's lien against the boat. The experience of a broker could be helpful here, and might be less expensive than hiring a maritime lawyer.
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I think some of you are making this unnecessarily complicated. The previous owner -- not the boat -- has a legal obligation to the marina. The new owner has no relationship with the marina. Inanimate objects cannot enter into contracts, only people, or in the case of a corporation an "artificial person," can sign a contract.
The primary issue the new owner faces is the possible lien on the asset (the boat). The secondary issue could be a desire to carry on doing business with the existing marina.
The primary issue the new owner faces is the possible lien on the asset (the boat). The secondary issue could be a desire to carry on doing business with the existing marina.
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A broker would have the experience to know how to ensure the boat has no liens or encumbrances, including how to ensure the marina doesn't slap a last-minute lien on the boat and chain it to the dock before he's able to take it away. This is one of the risks of doing a private sale. My first boat (TakeFive) was purchased as a private sale, and as the buyer I paid a few bucks to a broker friend to guide me through the process. Might not be a bad idea in this case.
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