[bobperry]

This is a new 43'er for a PNW client. The boat has twin diesels on sail drives. The builder is James Betts in Anacortes, WA. This is a custom project and what you see is what the client wants. But this image is a bit obsolete now. The hull ports have gone. The dink is off the housetop and the cabin trunk portlights are now all the same size. Details. Construction will be composite with epoxy.

 

[justflie]

Looks very nice, Bob. Interesting customer request (I assume) to have the twin diesels on the monohull. Was the thought process enhanced maneuverability (saildrives would help, distance between screws would reduce moment arm though) or redundancy? Maybe it allows for two smaller diesels/less noise?

 

[bobperry]

Just:
The idea is reliability. The client thinks that "if it is mechanical, it will break". I'll
use two small diesels that I have not chosen yet. Maybe a Beta 20hp with counter rotating sail drives. We'll see. And just to poke the dog with a stick,,,we might do the entire boat in carbon fiber. We'll see. Why? Because the client likes the idea.

 

[FirstCandC]

Awesome. I am guessing Mr. Lucky is ecstatic!

 

[justflie]

Carbon fiber?! Wowzas. Hey, if I had that kind of cash, I would love to spend it on a boat as well.

Doesn't your client know the boat has these white flappy things for when the engine breaks? I understand the sentiment about the engines though, esp with sail drives.

That will be quite the finished product, looking forward to seeing it.

 

[bobperry]

Just/First:
Yes, Mr. Lucky is very happy with progress. His last boat was a Cape George cutter and when we began I showed him Atkin's TALLY HO MAJOR and his eyes lit up. All that was left for me to do was to channel Bill Atkin and add my own touches to try and "modernize" the aesthetic and the performance. Carbon add around $40,000 to the build. The client just shrugs.

 

[single2coil]

The idea of composite is good news. The more we design it into our boats, the more it will enter our world. The price will reduce as the learning curve sets in. I have worked in the composite field for 20 years. Amazing product. The tooling brings the price up.
Again great news, take the composite and go forward.

 

[bobperry]

At this stage we are looking at Janeki to produce female molds. Same thing we did with the PSC 63.

 

[single2coil]

Bob, Janiki is a good group and they are close by to monitor progress and adjust quickly to minor (tiny) engineering changes. They were involved in the 787 build.

 

[dorymate1]

Would carbon make a difference with all that wetted surface?

 

[bobperry]

Coil:
I worked with Janeki before when we did the submarine for Paul Allen. They are only an hour away from me.

Dory:
Wetted surface has nothing to do with it. We do not need to save weight on this project. I have plenty of displacement for an S glass and epoxy laminate. But, as I have stated, the client likes the idea of carbon. It's best to keep in mind that with any custom design project the client gets what he wants. It may not be what you want or what makes sense to anyone else but it is his boat and he wants it to be very different from the current crop of production boats. I march to the client's drumming. When we disagree on a design element we discuss it in depth. If the clients' request does not hurt the boat's safety or hurt performance then I will let him win the argument. In this case the client wanted a "full keel" boats right from the start. Onions? Mayo? A pickle? My job is to give the client exactly the boat he sees in his imagination and to make sure it's a damn good boat and at the same time makes me happy and proud too.

 

[Jeff_H]

Bob,


Handsome boat and a very interesting design. Its almost a very big and updated Bristol Channel Cutter. That is a very creative solution to protecting and supporting the bottom of the outboard rudder while being able to cut away the aft end of the keel.

Jeff

 

[Minnesail]

Is there a name for that arrangement of keel and rudder? It looks unusual.

 

[bobperry]

Minn:
Dion't know that there is a specific name for that kind of rudder attachment but I'll call it Albert.

It's been done before but not exactly like the way I have it.

 

[ccriders]

Mr Perry,
Would you explain from a yacht design perspective the differences in these terms:
Composite
S glass
GRP
and carbon fiber.
It seems to me the cost differential between "carbon fiber" and "GRP" would be the fabric and that epoxy or bonding matrix would be about equal. I'm not an engineer and these terms get bandied about in a very confusing manner.
Thanks, hope you don't mind this request.
John

 

[bobperry]

CC:
I'd rather JeffH answer your question. He knows his stuff and I can;t type worth a damn.
If Jeff doesn't answer it I'll do it.

 

[Rhapsody-NS27]

Bob, You did good with her. I'd love to see a picture of the finished boat.

 

[bobperry]

Be patient Rhap. Boats like this don't pop out like Beneteaus. Sheesh!
Grumble grumble,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Yes, and of course I did "good with her". I have very high standards. I have worked very hard on this design to make it perfect in every way for the client. Of course I have done good. It's called "hard work" Sheesh and double sheesh.

I am at this stage when I know what's good. I am 68 and I have been at this seriously since I was 14. I'm very critical of my own work. You have no idea. But honestly, if you can't see the beauty in what I create then you have a piss poor frame of reference.

With that I'll go walk my dog. My dog knows exactly what I am talking about. She ignores me.
Smart dog.

 

[SloopJonB]

Mr Perry,
Would you explain from a yacht design perspective the differences in these terms:
Composite
S glass
GRP
and carbon fiber.
It seems to me the cost differential between "carbon fiber" and "GRP" would be the fabric and that epoxy or bonding matrix would be about equal. I'm not an engineer and these terms get bandied about in a very confusing manner.
Thanks, hope you don't mind this request.
John

I'll answer the specific questions here.

Composite is a rather "loose" term. Strictly speaking any laminate of resin and solids is composite - ordinary fiberglass for example. The term though is generally understood and used to describe more sophisticated constructs such as Kevlar, carbon fiber and epoxy laminates or foam or balsa core laminates and so forth. WEST (wood epoxy saturation technique) is composite as well. Generally when the term is used, the implication is that the construction is much more sophisticated than normal.

S-glass is simply a higher grade of fiberglass fabric - E-glass is the basic glass, S-glass is the next step up.

GRP means Glass Reinforced Plastic - regular old fiberglass, also called FRP for Fiberglass Reinforced Plastic.

Carbon fiber in this context is another fabric used for laminating - much lighter and stronger (and more expensive) than glass.

Your comment about costs is spot on - epoxy is epoxy as far as material costs go. Where things get expensive is in how they are used - epoxy carbon pre-preg in an autoclave is a whole lot more costly than a guy in a mould with a roll of fabric and a pail of resin.

All this stuff is available via Google if you want more details.

 

[MedSailor]

The number of times you reference "what the client wants" is troubling...

Is he stuck on some ideas you don't agree with?

My brother is a programmer and in programming they have "BOT tags" attaced to various programming functions. It stands for "The boss ordered this" and is there to help you explain yourself to another engineer who sees your work.

A little design conflict going on here or am I reading this wrong?

Medsailor

PS Nice to see you back here Bob. Thought we lost you to SA for a minute there.