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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hello all, hopefully I'm posting in the correct place. (mods please relocate if I'm mistaken)

I’m looking for some suggestions for a boat that I can keep down at my local lake and take out on weekends with the wife or with friends, but that will also be competitive. I’ve been sailing on and off since I was a young child, so I’m not a novice sailor. What I’m looking for is:
- length 18-20’
- monohull with small cuddy (added)
- total trailered weight preferably under 2,000 lbs
- handles well in 5-15 knot winds (the ability to plane in heavier wind would be a huge plus)
- PHRF rating as low as possible (under 190 would be optimal)
- a stabler boat would be better, as I’ll frequently have inexperienced crew
- cost preferably under 10k

Ultimately a U20 would be perfect (pun intended), but spending 20k+ on a boat would be frowned upon by the wife. About 6 months ago I let a cherry Holder 20 slip through my fingers because I had done very little research at the time, but from what I’ve read that boat may not be stable enough for my needs. Does anyone have thoughts on the Holder 20 or other similar boats that I should be considering? Thanks!
 

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I'd recommend to seek a used but 'decent' U-20 as they do meet all your qualifications.
Another suggestion would be a decent used Holder-20, a fairly simplified planing hull boat.

If youre not looking for a cuddy cabin boat also consider an M20 Scow (Melges or Johnson) ... but a bit 'complicated' with nearly 35 'control lines'. A more modernized version of the M20 but with lightweight carbon spars, retractable bowsprit for an asymmetric spinn etc, would be the Inland-20 (Windward Boat Works). The venerable M20 is well known as the 'submarine scow' for good reason; and that reason is instability. The I20 due to lighter spars etc. lessens that instability. The I-20 has been around for ~12 years so you may find a used one.
I-20: Windward Boatworks: I20 Scow
M-20: http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=5726 or http://www.m20-scow.com

Another impressive open cockpit type 19-20 ft. would be the Volant

All these mentioned boats can easily plane to windward.

:)
 

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Santana 20. Fast, simple, well balanced. The only minus is trailering - not an easy boat to launch from a ramp - more like a lift launch boat. Flying Scot for easy trailering but that is a very tender boat in heavier winds.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks for the suggestions, fellas. I would prefer a monohull with a small cuddy.



Santana 20. Fast, simple, well balanced. The only minus is trailering - not an easy boat to launch from a ramp - more like a lift launch boat. Flying Scot for easy trailering but that is a very tender boat in heavier winds.
I've taken a hard look at the Santana 20, but the trailering issue I'd really prefer to avoid. (which is why I'm still stuck on the convenience of the Holder) It seems that the boats I'm most interested in (the Holder and the Ultimate) are quite difficult to locate, particularly on the east coast. (PA specifically)

What are the best boat trading websites to stalk for this type of boat?
 

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There used to be a dealer for Holder-20s in the Allentown (Foglesville) Pa area.
There are several Holder 20s on Lake Nockamixon and I know there was one for sale as of last summer; so, try the local papers and other for sale sources for Quakertown, Bethlehem/Easton, etc.
You may also try a websearch for such boats for sale near Lake Wallenpaupack in the Poconos; ditto for Round Valley Reservoir in (Clinton ?) NJ

"Soundings" used to be a good source to locate such boats in the Penna./NJ area.
www.soundingsonline.com/
;-)
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
There used to be a dealer for Holder-20s in the Allentown (Foglesville) Pa area.
There are several Holder 20s on Lake Nockamixon and I know there was one for sale as of last summer; so, try the local papers and other for sale sources for Quakertown, Bethlehem/Easton, etc.
You may also try a websearch for such boats for sale near Lake Wallenpaupack in the Poconos; ditto for Round Valley Reservoir in (Clinton ?) NJ

"Soundings" used to be a good source to locate such boats in the Penna./NJ area.
Way to rub salt in the wound, that's the one I missed out on, lol. I'll have to keep my ear to the ground here. (Nockamixon is where I'd plan on keeping it) Do you by chance remember who the dealer is / used to be in this area?
 

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Wow, never heard of the Holder 20 but it looks like a really fun boat and is way on the light end of the spectrum which is a big plus for trailering -for comparison, a Mariner 19 will weight in at more like 1500 lbs.

I had a Siren 17 this past summer and loved it, not designed as a performance boat in terms of sail controls but light (750 lbs) and reasonably modern shape, and it was fast off the wind in a breeze (but lousy to weather). Not even close to your desired rating, like 270. I guess the 24-27' keelboats would've eaten me windward but I didn't get enough time around them to tell for sure.

But I sailed with novice crew, or with my three kids (4, 6, and 8 at the time) and had no problems. The Siren is very tender with the board up, somewhat less so board down, but nothing compared to my 25' woodie of previous years (3000+ lbs?). We didn't exactly go out if it was blowing 25+ but it was really not an issue. If anything it was a little easier to keep the light boat flat with the meat ballast.
 

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Way to rub salt in the wound, that's the one I missed out on, lol. I'll have to keep my ear to the ground here. (Nockamixon is where I'd plan on keeping it) Do you by chance remember who the dealer is / used to be in this area?
His name was Joe Dolgasch (sp. ?), had an outdoor sports shop (hiking, kayaking, boating, climbing gear, etc.) near the intersection of US22 and PA309 ... right close to the Allentown Exit of the PaTpke NE extension. He used to race his H-20 at Nockamixon .... but that was 15-20 years ago.

That H-20 you were on at Nockamixon probably was the one owned by a Chinese-American 'gentleman', and he did quite well with racing it ... parked right next to my current M20 Scow on "N" dock at the far north eastern section of the marina !!!!
 

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The Lightning 19' is also quite sporty and light weight.
Not much of a cuddy cabin though.
RichH wants you to get a Scow so he has a new person to race with(against).
 

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It's a bit of a long shot, but keep your eye open for a Hotfoot 20. It was the predecessor to the Ultimate 20; the same hull with different deck and a smaller sa plan and a symmetric spinnaker. It is a very fun boat, but not quite as high strung as a U20. They rate around 170 if I recall. Mine was hot rodded with a huge maim and a masthead spinnaker and rated in the 140 range. For trailering they draw 12" with the keel up, but they have the performance you expect from a 6' deep high aspect bulb keel. They are very quick when the breeze picks up. I routinely kept up with 35' boats, and when I got planing conditions...I was gone!
If you can find one you should be able to get it for around 5k!
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
His name was Joe Dolgasch (sp. ?), had an outdoor sports shop (hiking, kayaking, boating, climbing gear, etc.) near the intersection of US22 and PA309 ... right close to the Allentown Exit of the PaTpke NE extension. He used to race his H-20 at Nockamixon .... but that was 15-20 years ago.

That H-20 you were on at Nockamixon probably was the one owned by a Chinese-American 'gentleman', and he did quite well with racing it ... parked right next to my current M20 Scow on "N" dock at the far north eastern section of the marina !!!!
Too funny, I'm fairly certain we're talking about the same boat . . . small world! (and it doesn't get better than the far side of "N" dock down there)
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
It's a bit of a long shot, but keep your eye open for a Hotfoot 20. It was the predecessor to the Ultimate 20; the same hull with different deck and a smaller sa plan and a symmetric spinnaker. It is a very fun boat, but not quite as high strung as a U20. They rate around 170 if I recall. Mine was hot rodded with a huge maim and a masthead spinnaker and rated in the 140 range. For trailering they draw 12" with the keel up, but they have the performance you expect from a 6' deep high aspect bulb keel. They are very quick when the breeze picks up. I routinely kept up with 35' boats, and when I got planing conditions...I was gone!
If you can find one you should be able to get it for around 5k!
Months ago when I was researching the Holder I did come across this info, but I was a little concerned about the buoyancy issues if it gets swamped. (I read some have sunk) What's your take?
 

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Any small dinghy type boat with a cuddy cabin can be prevented from swamping .... just keep the companion way firmly closed up to prevent downflooding during 'stink' conditions.

Another 'trick' with a planing hulled boat is to NOT 'head up' when overwhelmed, just 'fully bear off' with the wind and 'attempt' to keep the boat 'directly under' the mast ... while you enjoy incredible planing speeds ... and while hoping that you dont run-out-of-water and hit land. A planing hulled boat's traveller will be the 'most used' sail control for saving your butt, and, you can always 'pull up the board' a bit to allow the boat to skid a bit instead of 'digging in and going over'.
 

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Go up a foot and look at the hunter 216.
Not a rocket - but I've done sustained 9 kts in one in 15kts of true wind.
 

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Months ago when I was researching the Holder I did come across this info, but I was a little concerned about the buoyancy issues if it gets swamped. (I read some have sunk) What's your take?
They have large flotation tanks built into them that make up the v-berth area and under the cockpit. The only way they are going to sink is if you manage to swamp it AND you have left the caps off the deck plates on the tanks. You would have to screw up royally in order to swamp one. We pushed the boat very hard and never even came close to swamping it let alone sinking it.
 

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If there are active sailing clubs around you, maybe find out what kind of one-design boats they race. If you want a competitive hull design, it would be fun to have others to compete against.
 
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