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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
This is such a self-serving term, and ever since the Rocna guy used everyone throws it around like it means something. What makes their designs more "New Generation" than the one invented a year, or 5 years earlier. It's not the roll bar, which still doesn't offer any advantage from what I've seen. After all, the Spade Guy considered himself a part of the "New Generation." Heck, he even wrote a book on anchoring, and surprise, he recommended ....the Spade.

I use a Fortress and a Delta, and I don't think either of them are dubbed "New Generation" so am I to assume they are "Old Generation" and not worthy of a cruising vessel.

I am thinking I'm going to invent an anchor design, just slightly different than what already exists, and call it the "Newest Generation?" I'll be considered a phenom and I might even write my own book on anchoring. :)

As for tests, there seem to be so many, and you can make of them what you will. There seem to be a lot of variables that are considered critical by whoever is interpreting the results. We need "New Generation" anchor tests.
 

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This is such a self-serving term, and ever since the Rocna guy used everyone throws it around like it means something. What makes their designs more "New Generation" than the one invented a year, or 5 years earlier. It's not the roll bar, which still doesn't offer any advantage from what I've seen...
Spoken like someone who may never have actually used a Spade, Bugel, Rocna, Manson Supreme, or Mantus, sounds like to me... ;-)

I use a Fortress and a Delta, and I don't think either of them are dubbed "New Generation" so i assume they are "Old Generation" and not worthy of a cruising vessel.
Last time I wandered into the back room at Bacon's in Annapolis, there were probably more Deltas on consignment there than any other single type... If you're happy with yours, that's great... But there would appear to be some indication that not everyone out there shares your opinion, and many sailors are 'trading up' from plows, to the 'next generation'...

After all, the Spade Guy considers himself a part of the "New Generation." Heck, he even wrote a book on anchoring, and surprise, he recommends the Spade.
Again, you appear to be a bit bit behind the times ;-)

Even "The Spade Guy" himself would likely now consider himself to be part of the 'Past Generation'...

Anchor designer Alain Poiraud deceased - Ocean Navigator - March/April 2011
 

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This is such a self-serving term, and ever since the Rocna guy used everyone throws it around like it means something. What makes their designs more "New Generation" than the one invented a year, or 5 years earlier. It's not the roll bar, which still doesn't offer any advantage from what I've seen. After all, the Spade Guy considers himself a part of the "New Generation." Heck, he even wrote a book on anchoring, and surprise, he recommends the Spade.

I use a Fortress and a Delta, and I don't think either of them are dubbed "New Generation" so am I to assume they are "Old Generation" and not worthy of a cruising vessel.

I am thinking I'm going to invent an anchor design, just slightly different than what already exists, and call it the "Newest Generation?" I'll be considered a phenom and I might even write my own book on anchoring. :)

As for tests, there seem to be so many, and you can make of them what you will. There seem to be a lot of variables that are considered critical by whoever is interpreting the results. We need "New Generation" anchor tests.
I used a genuine CQR for about 40 years. Then I got a Rocna. I was like you, poo pooing the idea of "next generation" anchors.
I wrote a long post after a year on the Rocna, you should search it out.
Over a thousand days on that Rocna, and it sets first time EVERY time and has never dragged, not even a tiny bit, in all kinds of conditions and lots of different bottoms.Suffice it to say, after over 55 years as a cruiser and professional sailor, I was wrong, and you are too.
 

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Poiroud's probable greatest contribution was the 'weighted tip' anchor, the spades are lead loaded in their tips.
Only in soft goo did I EVER have an anchoring problem with my 44# spade. Alain's suggestion to me at that time .... "you have to allow time for the leaded tip to sink that anchor down deep into the muck, sometimes 20 minutes before pulling strain"; and in the ~15 years since, Ive never had to use my big fortress 'mud hook'.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Rich, if I'm not mistaken the Delta has a ballasted tip...not sure that it's lead.

Capta, I'm sure the Rocna is good. My problem is with the term "New Generation Anchor" being thrown around as if anything designed and created before a certain time is outdated. It's a marketing term.
 

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My problem is with the term "New Generation Anchor" being thrown around as if anything designed and created before a certain time is outdated. It's a marketing term.
Agreed. It'd be more easily accepted if these anchors used some new technology (beyond, perhaps, for their design), but they're still just lumps of metal. For example, it'd be nice to have an anchor with a video feed up to the boat, so you can see what's going on. I could even imagine one that is powered and bores into the sea bed. They might even already exist.
 

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I don't really care what they call it.. I do know that our new same-weight Mantus is hooking up in a variety of situations much better than our CQR did - esp since we went to a MAX prop - it's like the extra thrust made it easier to drag the CQR where we don't seem to be able to 'drag' the Mantus the same way.

We're lucky in that we rarely get big winds in our regular anchorages overnight, esp in summer, but we still rest better with our "new" whatever anchor!;)
 

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Last time I wandered into the back room at Bacon's in Annapolis, there were probably more Deltas on consignment there than any other single type...
That's only because I don't think Bacon's will take CQRs anymore. There is a welding shop around the corner that converts CQR anchors into really nice mailboxes.
 

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After using a Manson Supreme on my last cruise, (and a CQR) I really do think they are a lot better than plows in most conditions.

That doesn't mean a plow is bad, it just means, I've never seen an anchor that sets as fast and well as that Manson Supreme does. And, I'm pretty sure any spade type anchor would perform about the same, so it's not like I'm in love with Manson.

I think it's a good design, maybe not perfect, but close enough until perfect shows up.
 

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I'm still old gen. and on my second CQR in 30 years of coastal sailing.

If I lose this one, I'll buy a new gen. Better performance and save some money! Why not?

CQR's do drag a little but overall they still work pretty well, despite the news of the next gen. :)
 

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Believe it or not there really is a 'next generation' of anchors. Specifically the SHHP anchors. There are three main classes of anchors on the registry.

1) Stockless anchor - this is the benchmark the others are rated against.
2) HHP (High Holding Power) - These are tested to produce twice the holding power of a Stockless and includes most of the traditional crusing anchors like the CQR, Fortress, and Delta
3) SHHP (Super High Holding Power) - these are tested to produce at least four times the holdi power of a Stockless. Ronca, Manson, and their ilk are found here.
4) VHHP (? Very HHP) - is being discussed, and will likely be 6 times the holding power of the Stockless. No current designs (I am aware of) currently meet this designation, but there is hope.

Frankly I think trying to draw a substantive difference between the different designs of SHHP anchors is pretty difficult. But there is a clear line between HHP and SHHP designs. So much so that Lloyds, ABYC, ect will allow the same ship to carry a much smaller anchor and remain in class.
 

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Believe it or not there really is a 'next generation' of anchors. Specifically the SHHP anchors. There are three main classes of anchors on the registry.

1) Stockless anchor - this is the benchmark the others are rated against.
2) HHP (High Holding Power) - These are tested to produce twice the holding power of a Stockless and includes most of the traditional crusing anchors like the CQR, Fortress, and Delta
3) SHHP (Super High Holding Power) - these are tested to produce at least four times the holdi power of a Stockless. Ronca, Manson, and their ilk are found here.
4) VHHP (? Very HHP) - is being discussed, and will likely be 6 times the holding power of the Stockless. No current designs (I am aware of) currently meet this designation, but there is hope.

Frankly I think trying to draw a substantive difference between the different designs of SHHP anchors is pretty difficult. But there is a clear line between HHP and SHHP designs. So much so that Lloyds, ABYC, ect will allow the same ship to carry a much smaller anchor and remain in class.
I've always kind of looked at these as a misuse of words as they are just referencing the load an anchor will take before it breaks. So what?
 

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Yup, a rock is old school and they do still work nicely. I had a Danforth, which was much better than a rock. My Delta worked was more convenient. And then I got a Manson Supreme, which is a very nice compromise.

Yup, the rock still works. Concrete slabs make nice moorings. But it would be a little silly to say they work well in this context. I defended my Delta, but I don't anymore... other than to say I do like the way it launched and came up clean. But it would need to be at least 50% heavier to do the same job as my "new generation" anchor. Sometimes we learn better ways. And given the shortcomings of roll bars, we should expect a "newer generation" about the time these wear out. Good.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I looked on the boats in Turkey - European, American mainly - and I was surprised how many are still using a CQR as their primary anchor. These are cruising boats - blue water, if you will - with wind vanes, and solar panels, and they are using them for whatever reason. They can afford what they want, I presume, but have hung onto these.
 

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I still have the 75lb CQR hanging off the bow roller that my PO installed when he commissioned the boat. Combined with 1/2" all chain, it's been holding us just fine in our local waters. I get a good set about 8-9 times out of 10 on the first try. I have dragged for sure on occasion, but not more than a boat length. I have always thought that the shear weight of our CQR and heavy chain has had more to do with our anchoring success than the design. It's pretty clear that CQRs have limitations.

When I replace it (not if), I will go with a next generation anchor. Probably Rocna. Next-gen are commonly identified by the concave fluke and roll bar. The spade's weighted tip to roll the fluke over is different, IMO.

In the end, you can call any of these anchors anything you want. You wouldn't be the first. Next-gen does have a fairly common identification and are clearly superior anchors to those that came before.
 

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I looked on the boats in Turkey - European, American mainly - and I was surprised how many are still using a CQR as their primary anchor. These are cruising boats - blue water, if you will - with wind vanes, and solar panels, and they are using them for whatever reason. They can afford what they want, I presume, but have hung onto these.
Yes, years of cruising experience verses picking up the latest, greatest, slick glossy magazine hype that so many voyeurs want to cling too.
 
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I still use my CQR as the main anchor mainly because it has always worked, has never slipped and has held in all kinds of bottoms, in all kinds of current changes, through a couple of tropical storms. I also keep a Bruce and a Danforth aboard as well as a second, smaller CQR. I guess the answer as to why people still have CQRs is that they work regardless of the somewhat questionable criticism as of late. I will eventually replace with a next gen anchor but will certainly be wary until it proves to be as good as my CQR.
 
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Going back, a few gens, I watched an 80' schooner sail into a fairly crowded anchorage last season. The massive old boat was moving pretty well when the captain turned the bow into the wind and up a slot between several boats. Loud rattling rang out as two experienced and agile bowmen wrestled down 2 big jibs from the bow sprit netting.

Then the whole deck crew went hush and the schooner coasted briskly up the slot.

2 crew were ready at the hawser and chain of an anchor(fishermen style) the likes of which you only see in front of cliche' clam shacks in Southern Maine.

At a precise moment the command - "let go anchor" was the only sound heard. That clam shack anachronism and hundreds of pounds of chain rattled quickly off the foredeck.

80' of black schooner coasted on, and on,....then stopped...dead.

As the schooner slowly drifted back on the headwind to a perfect spot between boats, nobody said a word.

There's better anchors than that old fishermen but only a fool would advise the captain his old anchor doesn't work. :)
 

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Some 40 years ago, in my old 42' Wheeler Playmate, I anchored in Newport Harbor with the ancient, clumsy, heavy, Luke type anchor within 50' of the rip-rap while a gale blew all night right through the mouth of the harbor. She never moved an inch. Some of those anchors do actually work:) Wish I still had that one.
 
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