[ranjr13]

Two boats, similarly equipped, similar condition, sharing the common theme of un-stayed masts, the Freedom 35 with a swim platform/easy access transom - any experience with both to form an opinion on which direction to go if considering purchase? Coastal motoring/sailing, with the potential for a FL bound ICW in several years. Thanks in advance.

 

[boatpoker]

I can't tell you anything about the Freedom but I have surveyed a number of Nonsuch's and found them to be fairly consistent with their issues.

They have balsa cored bottoms and many suffer from seriously wet cores although I have seen a few that were absolutely sound.

They came with aluminum waste tanks which rotted out fairly quickly so perhaps this has been addressed.

The propane systems are bizarre, dangerous and meet no known standards.

The electrical systems were atrocious and again met no known standards.

A new mast will cost you $100k and I'd say 3 out of ten I have looked at had serious issues.

I have posted a sample survey report which I consider typical of this marque. You may find it useful as a guide when inspecting the vessel.

 

[ranjr13]

Great reply, great resource in the surveys, thank you.

 

[fallard]

Great reply, great resource in the surveys, thank you.

As I recall, the Nonesuch has an aluminum mast and the Freedom is carbon fiber. A number of years ago, a colleague suffered a dismasting in her Freedom. Sometime prior to the dismasting, the boat had suffered a lightning strike and the owner thought all had been restored to proper condition. The postmortem blamed the lighting strike for weakening the (conductive) carbon fiber structure of the mast.

So, if you are entertaining a Freedom, you might inquire about lighting in the boat's history. I don't know how a surveyor would assess the integrity of the carbon fiber mast--maybe someone else can offer a qualified opinion.

Regarding the Nonesuch, my recollection is that the masts were basically light standards that seemed rugged enough. I was somewhat surprised by the surveyor's experience with multiple Nonesuch mast issues. Great to have such information show up in SN.

 

[gamayun]

Try posting your question on Freedomyachts.org. I don't know anything about Freedom 35s, but I love my F38. Very solidly built. She has some issues for a 28-year-old boat that had never been upgraded, and except for the wonky co-mingling of AC and DC in the same panel, these don't have anything to do with original build quality.

 

[miatapaul]

Both are of similar quality construction(cored hull, high quality fiberglass). If the Freedom is likely much less than the Nonsuch, but likely has a more usable sail plan, though more complicated. Is this the Pedrick designed cat/sloop or the Hoyt designed cat ketch? Assuming the Pedrick that looks like a really sweet boat. The Nonsuch is kind of a weird bag, quality is high, but the rig is love it or hate it, and some of the systems are very odd. The water heater is awful and is even marked on the unit that it is not for marine use and if I bought one would be the first thing I removed. The interior lay out is really nice for They are cool though with only one sail to deal with. As long as you are planning on near shore it is a great rig.

 

[Hudsonian]

Goofy story about a Freedom 39 Pilothouse cat-schooner: Two decades ago a friend married his trophy wife in NYS, he bought a Freedom 39 Pilothouse cat-schooner in FL, and they sailed it home on an extended honeymoon; the lovely new wife had never sailed before. Two years later my wife and I happened upon them and their Freedom cat-schooner at a secluded anchorage in a mid-Atlantic state. Over drinks they recounted that had twice been struck by lightning during their trip north. Aghast I asked the delightful Mrs. X whether she was shaken by this. To which she responded, "You know, I had never sailed before and after one mast was struck I wasn't surprised when the other mast was struck. I just thought it must be a regular part of sailing."

 

[miatapaul]

Goofy story about a Freedom 39 Pilothouse cat-schooner: Two decades ago a friend married his trophy wife in NYS, he bought a Freedom 39 Pilothouse cat-schooner in FL, and they sailed it home on an extended honeymoon; the lovely new wife had never sailed before. Two years later my wife and I happened upon them and their Freedom cat-schooner at a secluded anchorage in a mid-Atlantic state. Over drinks they recounted that had twice been struck by lightning during their trip north. Aghast I asked the delightful Mrs. X whether she was shaken by this. To which she responded, "You know, I had never sailed before and after one mast was struck I wasn't surprised when the other mast was struck. I just thought it must be a regular part of sailing."

Sounds like he did better than winning a trophy, more like the lottery. Most would have been like, I am out of here after the first strike.

If budget constrained I suppose you could build your own Carbon fiber mast as a replacement. Just need a form to wind it over. I always thought it might be fun to try to make a carbon fiber mast for a cheap sailing dingy. I think some of the Freedom's masts were fiberglass early one weren't they? I looked at an Offshore Cat ketch and it had aluminum masts and they look like they are overly strong.

 

[ranjr13]

Similar price, similar condition. I've looked at both aluminum and carbon masted Nonsuch boats, and both can have faults. Here's a link to this F35. Because I don't have enough posts here on this forum yet, it won't allow me to post a link to the F35, but happy to share with anyone vs pm if they want to see. Thanks everyone for feedback thus far, and agree with on-demand water heater etc.

My experience is with better name brands in power, Bertram, Island Gypsy, BHM (Flye Point), older Boston Whalers, and looking for something relatively easy to single handle and have some size for comfort when needed. Thanks again.

 

[miatapaul]

Similar price, similar condition. I've looked at both aluminum and carbon masted Nonsuch boats, and both can have faults. Here's a link to this F35. Because I don't have enough posts here on this forum yet, it won't allow me to post a link to the F35, but happy to share with anyone vs pm if they want to see. Thanks everyone for feedback thus far, and agree with on-demand water heater etc.

My experience is with better name brands in power, Bertram, Island Gypsy, BHM (Flye Point), older Boston Whalers, and looking for something relatively easy to single handle and have some size for comfort when needed. Thanks again.

I don't think there is as much "quality" difference between different sailboats as there is to power boats. Well Bayliner did make sailboats for a while. But for the most part the biggest difference is going to be in the level of hand crafted interiors, but hulls are all fairly similar. Other higher quality brands to look at would be:

Saber
Canadian Sailcraft (some times listed as CS)
C&C
Tartan
Alerion
Aldan
Pacfic Sea Craft
Gozzard

Lots of others. I don't think the single sail really is that much of an advantage for a single handler, sure there is less to keep track of, but it is really big and heavy, so you may well be reliant on electric winches. A split rig (with more than one sail) gives more flexibility to deal with differing conditions. Alerion makes some excellent sort of traditional looking boats with fairly modern underpinnings and are kind of set up for single handed day-sailing. though they tend to have smaller cabins but if you are by your self and perhaps a couple of others they are fine. Tartan and C&C (was owned by the same company for a while) make excellent boats, though there was an issue with a few hulls, but I am sure they are all straightened out by now. They have beautifully trimmed out interiors. Saber makes some really beautiful boats, but now are concentrating on power, but lots of good ones out there. Canidian Sailcraft makes a very well made boat with a more easy to maintain interior.

Really depends on what you want to do and how much you want to spend. Do you plan on long blue-water passages, just coastal sailing or perhaps island hopping? You might be better served by getting a nice production boat like a Catalina 34 that you can turn around quickly after learning sailing and determine what you want to do, or you may find it suits your needs.

 

[boatpoker]

So, if you are entertaining a Freedom, you might inquire about lighting in the boat's history. I don't know how a surveyor would assess the integrity of the carbon fiber mast--maybe someone else can offer a qualified opinion.

Use of an infrared camera is not nearly as simple as the mfg's suggest. Carbon fiber mast inspection is one area I have found that even a novice can find the flaws with an infrared camera.