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Nothing like bc cabbage to foul an anchor. Getting it set takes finess. Anchor hits the bottom, let out chain faster than you fall back. Not in a clump. Then stop the chain with somewhat less than appropriate scope. You can feel if it has set.Then let out to suitable scope. Bottom texture has much to say about the learning experience. On the Kenai a set was only good for a couple of hours before the kelp had to be cut off.Fun in a gale. Once anchored behind a drill island in the Beaufort. Come morning it was many miles to windward. Mud like molylube doesn't grip too good.
 

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:D

Okay, so help me to understand my imaginary scenario. We have changed locations, correct? I am no longer on the ICW, I am now on the Mississippi. 40 foot keel boat that is maneuverable enough to swing itself stern first into the current around a mooring in a 5 knot current is dragging anchor in 30 feet of water with exactly 30 feet of chain out. My windlass is jammed at the chain rope splice. If I put my engine in gear, my 30 feet of chain and anchor will be instantly sucked into the propeller of my 40 foot boat. Is that before or after it wraps around my keel? The sandbar is still a quarter of a mile behind me. I assume from reading how you like to keep your scenarios realistic, this isn't a gradual decrease in depth but this will be an abrupt sand bar ledge. Is that correct? Will the current that is 5 knots in 30 feet of water still be travelling at 5 knots when it hits the sandbar? I am picturing a large haystack and significant amount of white water as the river passes over the sand bar ledge. Is that correct?

I am curious how the facts in your imaginary scenario are going to change in your next response. Will there be unicorns and care bears for crew?

Also, while you are researching your next post from questionable sources on the internet, can you provide me with a link to a reputable source that says it's not possible to put a few revs on an engine to take the strain off a dragging anchor? Something other than your experience would be nice.

I do enjoy reading some good fantasy while I drink my morning coffee.
Your specific words were "hold zero speed over ground in 5 knot current". If you are holding zero speed in 5 mph current, yes your free anchor and line will be dragged under your boat.

BTW I specifically used the speed of 5 mph, not 5 knots.

Now you can rattle on and on about the details. But this is what you said.
Bryce
 

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Do you know your anchor works well in this bottom? My neighbor here who likes to use less chain and much more line dragged in a gust.
If we were not restricted by the fairway I would definitely let out more chain in this situation, especially considering the gusty winds .
I said "after it sets". Most every anchor test includes a test at 3:1 scope. So this is not unusual.
Bryce
 

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I would not recommend anyone to anchor with just line attached to a Danforth (or any anchor for that matter). I have experimented and it does not work for long.

If I can't anchor with my Rocna on a clay bed then I would consider that bed a sedimentary rock untenable for any anchor. I would reconsider my position if presented with empirical data to the contrary.

THere is no doubt that there are more boats anchored with only line and a Danforth than any thing else in the US. Millions of little power boats have been using this solution for decades. And still do to this day. These boats do not run amuck in the anchorages just because a breeze comes up.

And no doubt, Chesepeake with some of its clay bottom anchorages will cause your Rocna to drag. Other areas in the Chesepeake hold fine.

On the flip side, I agree softer clay makes an ideal bottom.
Bryce
 

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In reality, my bit old danforth with just 20 feet of chain and the rest rode, digs into the soupy mud on the bottom of Chesapeake Bay and it's tributaries better than my plow that is all chain. It did a much better job on the sandy bottom of the Florida Keys as well. When the plow began to drag, I tossed out the danford and the boat stopped dead in it's tracks. The danforth weighs 22 pounds, while the plow is twice as heavy, but never seems to hold as well. If the danforth would fit on my anchor chock, it would be there as my primary anchor.

Good luck,

Gary
I absolutely agree with this.. soupy mud is great for a Danforth. Bahamas is also ideal for my Danforth.
Bryce
 

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THere is no doubt that there are more boats anchored with only line and a Danforth than any thing else in the US. Millions of little power boats have been using this solution for decades. And still do to this day. These boats do not run amuck in the anchorages just because a breeze comes up.

And no doubt, Chesepeake with some of its clay bottom anchorages will cause your Rocna to drag. Other areas in the Chesepeake hold fine.
Still waiting for that empirical data to support your claims.
 

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THere is no doubt that there are more boats anchored with only line and a Danforth than any thing else in the US.......
No doubt? Prove it then. I don't believe there is a single example in our entire marina. Maybe there is an exception or two that I haven't noticed, but you have a long way to go to get to the most common.

I would agree it's common for little power boats (your description) to have a danforth and rope, but they would be the primary dragging concern in any anchorage around here, in my experience. Not that the danforth isn't a good anchor for certain conditions, but this argument fell flat.

If your objective is to get everyone to agree that the danforth is the best anchor, you must be delusional. That never happens on an internet forum. Ever.
 

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I don’t really understand the dispute that BryceGTX thinks he is having. A Danforth is a great anchor — for the right conditions. Mud, sand, soft clay… basically any substrate where it can penetrate and set its flukes is where it will outperform most others.

But as anyone who has actual anchoring experience in a wide variety of locations, conditions and durations will tell you, a Danforth-style is NOT the best anchor much of the time. Harder bottoms, weeds, very soupy, or areas of rapid directional change … these are areas the danforth-style will struggle with.

I used (and still carry) a Danforth. I used it as a bower for many years, but did so in combination with a bower CQR. I carried both off the bow holder and would switch between them depending on my assessment of the bottom. This combination worked great.

A few years ago I moved to a new-gen style anchor (Rocna in my case, but I put them all in the same category). This single anchor covers pretty much the same range of bottom conditions as my previous danforth/cqr combo did. This is why it is a better anchor for those of us who cruise in varied locations and spend a lot of time swinging from our own hooks.

I also carry a large Danforth, a Bruce, and a large Fortress (as my storm anchor). All are great anchors, but the Rocna is best as a bower. If I was only cruising in areas of sand/mud bottoms with little debris or weeds, a Danforth could be the best choice.

And yes, always anchor with plenty of chain. Rope/chain is fine as long as you have enough chain. All-chain is best for the widest range of conditions as long as your boat can manage the weight. If it can’t, then all-chain is NOT the best choice.

In my observation, most small to mid-sized powerboats do use danforths as their bower. In my observation, most of these boats rarely anchor at all. The few that do, spend small amounts of time anchored.

Actually, it’s been a source of concern and sometimes amusement to watch some of these power boaters try to anchor with their tiny danforths in conditions that simply aren’t appropriate. I can’t tell you the number of power boats I’ve seen drag away, and this includes whole rafts them (why do powerboats love to raft so much??).

Here is a group of four that let loose on our recent cruise. The whole group was headed out to sea. Luckily there were a few people on board that sorted things out. I didn’t have to go rescue this group (as I’ve done a number of times).

 

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(why do powerboats love to raft so much??).

G]
Why because they carry those little tiny Danforth type anchors and don’t know how to use them so it is better for all of them to raft up together to boat the with the less small tiny Danforth anchor
 

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One of the things I like about my cheap little Lowrance chart plotter is that I can set the screen to fish finder mode and it gives me a good view of the bottom, including plants.

Once this summer I thought I had my danforth set, but it was mostly just hooked on plants. They eventually uprooted I started to drag.

The visibility was only a couple feet so even having someone on the bow wouldn't have helped, but once I switched to fish finder mode I was able to drive around and find a clear spot and get a good set.

Different circumstance, obviously. I'm in a 22' boat on a freshwater lake.
Were you able to see what kind of bottom there was too in fishfinder mode? I've been considering getting a fishfinder too lately but it's hard to narrow down which one I want to get...

Sent from my LG-H918 using Tapatalk
 

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Your specific words were "hold zero speed over ground in 5 knot current". If you are holding zero speed in 5 mph current, yes your free anchor and line will be dragged under your boat.

BTW I specifically used the speed of 5 mph, not 5 knots.

Now you can rattle on and on about the details. But this is what you said.
Bryce
Show me the math I don't believe you. In my response I specifically said I was using chain, you have switched to line in a desperate attempt to dig yourself out of a credibility hole. Go back and read my post. Quote me, don't paraphrase.

If I power up on a dragging anchor and chain until neutral speed over the bottom is acheived, all I have done is take the strain off the anchor chain. There might be some chain under the bow, but unless you're using a planing or displacement anchor, it's not flying flat out behind me.

If you're so certain I'm wrong, show me the math. Show me how the drag on the anchor chain has lifted the anchor off the bottom and flung it out behind me like a kangaroo playing leap frog. Your physics are broken.

Yes, I said 5 knot current, that's because I'm a sailor not a trucker.

If you say I'm using all line and no chain it means I'm on a tiny 2000 lb or less boat (like my Bay Hen) and there is no windlass to jam, I just hand bomb the anchor because I'm not frail.

By the way, I'm practicing my anchoring techniques right now. Sand Bottom, all line ;)
 

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We see hundreds of power boaters anchored alone and rafted. I can't remember the last time I saw one dragging the anchor.
It is not the type of boat but the anchoring system in the present discussion. Of those you have seen how many do you think would be using a Danforth anchor with an all line rode? I take it the boats you refer to are located in the PNW.
 

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Were you able to see what kind of bottom there was too in fishfinder mode? I've been considering getting a fishfinder too lately but it's hard to narrow down which one I want to get...
You can easily see plants and rocks. You can see soft mud. Clay and sand look the same though. It also looks ahead and behind so you can see if the bottom is flat or inclined.

 

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ScottUK

You are right, I was not staying on topic. I thought that I was perceiving a bias against power boaters, a couple of posters seem to be suggesting there are lots of them around who don't have the knowledge or equipment to anchor properly. I was simply stating that I see many power boats and they are not dragging their anchors all over creation. I am not trying to start an argument.
 

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Small power boats are relatively light displacement and small wind profile. They just don't need much of an anchor. More importantly, they almost never anchor 24/7/365 and beat it to the trailer or marina if conditions are not bright, sunny, and low winds.

Danforths are great anchors in many conditions but I hate the damn things. They are a real PITA if you have to move them off the anchor roller. The bar or the flukes grab onto you, the boat or anything they can to make life difficult. The damn hinged flukes have a voracious appetite for fingers that can range from a nasty pinch to amputation. Have had a Danforth break loose with a change in the tide and wind and skip along the bottom not resetting. Have also had them bury so deep they had to be pulled out backwards by a diver, me. Still carry a broken down Fortress FX 23 as a back up anchor and FX 16 as a stern/lunch hook. Give me a New style Non hinged folding anchor any day.

Anchored 24/7/365 on all chain including a tropical storm passage with 50 plus winds and never a problem. Always used a snubber tied to the anchor with rolling hitches and didn't have much of a problem getting it undone including the before mentioned storm. Tried a chain hook but it kept coming detached and very soon committed it to Poseidon.

Rope road works just fine till you really need it. For the real cruiser who lives or dies with his anchor, rope is just too prone to failure from chafe. If you can set up the rode so it makes no bends greater than say 30 degrees and there is nothing that the line will come in contact with and there is nothing on the bottom that the rope will foul then rope could be a 24/7/365 solution. Have had the unfortunate experience of having to rely on rope during the passage of a downgraded former hurricane. Being stuck on the foredeck for a night periodically releasing the line to be sure the line didn't chafe and change the wear point as it passed through the chock is not something I ever want to do again. The only good thing was I had plenty of tail on the line so didn't run out of line to let out.

So Danforths are good, in fact great, anchors on some bottoms but they are still a PITA to handle they I'll avoid unless absolutely unavoidable. Small power boats can get by with POS anchors because they only anchor occasionally and almost never in less than ideal conditions. Rope rode will work fine IF it doesn't chafe through on something like a chock on board or a foul bottom. It is rude for someone with rope road to drop their hook on a 7-1 scope and wipe out half the anchorage for other boats that don't require such excessive swinging room. A rollling hitch works just fine for a snubber and the price is right.
 

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For the real cruiser who lives or dies with his anchor.
Everyone who's anchored lives or dies with his anchor. This "real cruiser" thing just doesn't exist. Real cruisers use all chain. And Real cruisers use mixed rode. So let's not get carried away. This is all about preference - not dogma.

Being stuck on the foredeck for a night periodically releasing the line to be sure the line didn't chafe and change the wear point as it passed through the chock is not something I ever want to do again.
Knowing how to use good chafe gear cuts way down on this problem...pardon the pun.
 
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