Curious, the center circular mark
The rest looks like layers of previous filler around that circular mark. The cross section is not bottom paint.
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Not sure what I'm looking at, is this a blister?
Hello,
I was preparing to antifoul my first boat when I noticed what looked like a deep scratch or slice. I gave it a push with the paint scrapper and this crater popped out. I don't really know what I'm looking at here- is this a blister? Is this rotted fiberglass or just a bunch of paint layers? How much trouble am I in with this boat and what's the best way to make a repair here?
I was preparing to antifoul my first boat when I noticed what looked like a deep scratch or slice. I gave it a push with the paint scrapper and this crater popped out. I don't really know what I'm looking at here- is this a blister? Is this rotted fiberglass or just a bunch of paint layers? How much trouble am I in with this boat and what's the best way to make a repair here?
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The rest looks like layers of previous filler around that circular mark. The cross section is not bottom paint.I noticed that little nipple spot as well. no idea what it signifies, some kind of squeeze applicator?Curious, the center circular mark
It looks like maybe somebody started to drill a hole with a hole saw and didn't complete it, then filled it with bog and painted. That nipple thing looks like the pilot drill hole.
If the surrounding area is solid, I'd just grind the edges back a bit in a bevel and put on a couple circular layers of fiberglass to bring it back flush. Sand fair and paint.
Mark
If the surrounding area is solid, I'd just grind the edges back a bit in a bevel and put on a couple circular layers of fiberglass to bring it back flush. Sand fair and paint.
Mark
My bet ... a failed patch.
Any patch on top of moisture will fail. It looks like it never properly bonded. From the colour It looks like thickened epoxy. The slightly shiny spots suggest moisture contact and the drilled holes were not beveled at all, should have been 12:1. A thoroughly amateur job.
Take a look at ... Moisture Meter Mythology and Flir thermal imager
Any patch on top of moisture will fail. It looks like it never properly bonded. From the colour It looks like thickened epoxy. The slightly shiny spots suggest moisture contact and the drilled holes were not beveled at all, should have been 12:1. A thoroughly amateur job.
Take a look at ... Moisture Meter Mythology and Flir thermal imager
Definitely. Then looks like the same guy that faired my keel with bondo did that “patch”. There may be more.It looks like maybe somebody started to drill a hole with a hole saw and didn't complete it, then filled it with bog and painted. That nipple thing looks like the pilot drill hole.
Thanks. It's odd that someone would be drilling a hole there- it's just a few inches from a through hull that I think goes to the toilet. But the boat was built in 1968 so I suppose a lot can happen in 50 odd years. I gather from the replies that the damage is down into the fiberglass at any rate. To repair would something like this West System Epoxy Glass Fibre Boat Repair Kit (Ireland Only) be my best bet? I've never owned a boat or worked with fiberglass before.
Two years ago the repairs I did several years ealier with the Interlux stuff was literally falling off the hull. So I used my patented bottom paint scraper which has a telescopic leg, and a propane space heater with a large elbow pointing upwards to heat the hull. We stripped off all the gelcoat and sanded the whole bottom with a belt sander with 40 grit paper. Then we applied 4 layers of non woven fiberglass and epoxy to the whole bottom The cloth was 12" wide and we applied it on a 45 degree diagonal which allowed it to twist around the curve of the hul with no wrinkles. We did the first layer edge to edge. Second layer in the same direction half lapped over the first. 3rd and fourth layers went on the same way but at 90 degrees to the first. This was surprisingly easy to do with my grandson helping to hold strips about 10 feet long and wetting it into epoxy already rolled on the surface and then coating it some more. So the boat has essentially a whole new bottom.
You are going to have to strip that bottom paint to see what you are dealing with and then come up with a plan. What kind of boat is this ? It may make a difference in the advice you receive.Thanks. It's odd that someone would be drilling a hole there- it's just a few inches from a through hull that I think goes to the toilet. But the boat was built in 1968 so I suppose a lot can happen in 50 odd years. I gather from the replies that the damage is down into the fiberglass at any rate. To repair would something like this West System Epoxy Glass Fibre Boat Repair Kit (Ireland Only) be my best bet? I've never owned a boat or worked with fiberglass before.
It's a Westerly 22, Westerly 22 - Westerly-Wiki. She seems to be in great condition apart from this ding New Owner Need Some Advice that happened during transport to me. By strip the bottom paint I assume you mean around the crater not the entire boat right?You are going to have to strip that bottom paint to see what you are dealing with and then come up with a plan. What kind of boat is this ? It may make a difference in the advice you receive.
Terrific, at least you are not dealing with a balsa cored hull. At least you need someone experienced in percussive sounding a hull to look at it. If you patch that one you could be dealing with three more next year and so on an so on. The work was done by someone without a clue. How much more is hidden by the bottom paint ?It's a Westerly 22, Westerly 22 - Westerly-Wiki. She seems to be in great condition apart from this ding New Owner Need Some Advice that happened during transport to me. By strip the bottom paint I assume you mean around the crater not the entire boat right?
I concur, excellent evaluation Mark.It looks like maybe somebody started to drill a hole with a hole saw and didn't complete it, then filled it with bog and painted. That nipple thing looks like the pilot drill hole.
If the surrounding area is solid, I'd just grind the edges back a bit in a bevel and put on a couple circular layers of fiberglass to bring it back flush. Sand fair and paint.
Mark
Maybe not surprising - is the toilet original? If newer, perhaps they began to drill a hole for the thruhull in the wrong place, caught the mistake, and moved it to its current position. Or maybe they moved the toilet from original and patched the old hole.Thanks. It's odd that someone would be drilling a hole there- it's just a few inches from a through hull that I think goes to the toilet.
Mark
The fact that there is a thru-hull near by absolutely supports the idea that someone started to drill a hole for the thru-hull in the wrong place. That someone may even have been an original Westerly employee. Westerly's of that era were not known for high levels of quality control. (Almost no builder of that period had the level of quality control which has become the norm today.)
Regarding the question about materials for the repair. I would normally recommend epoxy and fiberglass cloth. Epoxy develops a relatively stronger secondary bond (the strength of the adherence between an existing cured fiberglass and the new material.)
But this is a small, minimally structural repair. Epoxy is harder to sand to a fair shape and you are new to this, so I would recommend using Vinylester resin and a alternating layers of woven fiberglass cloth and non direction fabric (mat).
As had been suggested, the divot should be ground out to produce a tapered margin which is 12 times bigger than the depth of the hole. In other words if the depth is 3mm, then the ground out area around that depth should be 36mm on all sides. Prep would consist of grinding out the area, Making sure that the repair occurs in dry and solid material. Cutting concentrically larger shaped pieces of the fiberglass reinforcing fabrics. Multiple wipe downs with denatured alcohol to remove any contaminants. Then doing a quick lamination.
If I were doing this I would apply the fabric, put a piece of wax paper over the layup, then tape a piece of card board over the wax paper to get a relatively fair surface, and to hold the layup against gravity.
You will probably need some additional fairing which will mean wiping the surface with alcohol several times, then grinding the surface to almost fair and doing a final fairing with a thickened vinylester filler.
Jeff
Regarding the question about materials for the repair. I would normally recommend epoxy and fiberglass cloth. Epoxy develops a relatively stronger secondary bond (the strength of the adherence between an existing cured fiberglass and the new material.)
But this is a small, minimally structural repair. Epoxy is harder to sand to a fair shape and you are new to this, so I would recommend using Vinylester resin and a alternating layers of woven fiberglass cloth and non direction fabric (mat).
As had been suggested, the divot should be ground out to produce a tapered margin which is 12 times bigger than the depth of the hole. In other words if the depth is 3mm, then the ground out area around that depth should be 36mm on all sides. Prep would consist of grinding out the area, Making sure that the repair occurs in dry and solid material. Cutting concentrically larger shaped pieces of the fiberglass reinforcing fabrics. Multiple wipe downs with denatured alcohol to remove any contaminants. Then doing a quick lamination.
If I were doing this I would apply the fabric, put a piece of wax paper over the layup, then tape a piece of card board over the wax paper to get a relatively fair surface, and to hold the layup against gravity.
You will probably need some additional fairing which will mean wiping the surface with alcohol several times, then grinding the surface to almost fair and doing a final fairing with a thickened vinylester filler.
Jeff
Thanks for the detailed reply Jeff. I've already ordered the west system kit so I guess I'm going with epoxy. If I understand correctly I'm smoothing out the damaged area to an even, shallow gradient, layering in the fiberglass and above that a coating of epoxy mixed with one of the fillers included in the kit? Then sand smooth, finish with primer & my antifoul.
Yes, you are grinding out an area so that it has tooth (i.e. visible sanding marks) and so that the edges of the area of the repair ends up as an evenly tapered cater. You are then laying up in layers of fiberglass fabric saturated with epoxy resin. On something like this I would wet out the each piece of the fiberglass cloth one at a time on a piece of plastic before placing it. If was doing this using epoxy, I would probably use peelply between the last layup and the waxpaper. Once the layup has cured, you will want to grind it to a relatively fair surface and then do a final fairing with the thickened epoxy in the kit.Thanks for the detailed reply Jeff. I've already ordered the west system kit so I guess I'm going with epoxy. If I understand correctly I'm smoothing out the damaged area to an even, shallow gradient, layering in the fiberglass and above that a coating of epoxy mixed with one of the fillers included in the kit? Then sand smooth, finish with primer & my antifoul.
EDIT: I just noticed the link to the kit that you bought. The kit includes '205 Fast Hardener'. I personally generally prefer to use the slow hardener because I want more working time. When I have used the 205, I use the pumps and do multiple smaller mixes rather than trying to work off a single larger mix. This is a small repair so the it may be possible to do the whole lamination in one mix. If the mix starts feeling hot (more than just warm) or like setting Jello, its time to stop and do a new mix.
Jeff
Yes, I noticed that its fast hardener. All the guides & advice I've looked at recommended slow, and I'd certainly prefer more working time but this what was available for me so I'll just have to make the best of it I suppose. Several smaller mixes sounds like a good idea.
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