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Telstar 28
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To me, the important thing is not to lose the kids to the Dark Side of the idiot box and idiot couch potato games. We need those kids on the water and they need to be out exploring the real world.
well said.
 

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1975 Newport 28
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573 Posts
To me, the important thing is not to lose the kids to the Dark Side of the idiot box and idiot couch potato games. We need those kids on the water and they need to be out exploring the real world.
Hi.

I'm the poster Dad for kids locked in on video games (though not TV, oddly). But I seriously think it's a genetic thing for my kids. Let me tell you the brief story:

When we had our first (all boys), I told my MIL "Please don't buy any video games for the kids." Flash forward to our son's second Christmas -- a Nintendo game set from the MIL. [heavy sigh] He was excited about it, so I couldn't just throw it away (wish I had, though).

Flash forward another 20 years to the present, and all three boys (22, 20, 17) are avid video gamers. Between their mother and I we have exposed those boys to about every athletic endeavor known to Western civilization: baseball, football, soccer, tennis, badminton, volleyball, cycling, riding, sailing, camping, hiking, canoeing, kayaking, swimming, lifting -- you name it. They'll do it all with us, and then go right back to the video games. There's just nothing that competes, to them.

The moral to the story is what the man said: don't "lose the kids to the Dark Side of the idiot box and idiot couch potato games. We need those kids on the water and they need to be out exploring the real world."
 

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If your kids are addicted to video games, you have no one to blame but yourselves. The video games are not at fault. You have failed to instill in your children a sense of curiosity about the world that drives them to explore and discover on their own (i.e. learning outside a classroom, reading books for pleasure, voluntarily going camping, etc). The number one distinction I can find between kids who turn out to be good, successful, interesting, and healthy vs those who do not is that their parents somehow made them curious. I have no idea how you go about doing this, however.

I'm speaking from experience. I'm 26. When I was a kid, I had a playstation console system and I also played a ton of computer games. I also watched quite a bit of TV. But it never consumed me. I spent tons of time outside in the woods, I spent tons of time reading, I spent a lot of time in the basement building things (my parents gave me a bunch of electronics kits, I later became an electrical engineer), and even when I was on the computer often I was learning (I'm a professional software engineer). The key to it all is curiosity, since that's what makes anything entertainment, instead of just things that are designed to be entertaining. The only conjecture I have as to what my parents did was answering all my questions when I was a kid, even going so far as to buy me kid-friendly encyclopedias so they could look up the answers to my questions (before I could read).
 

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At 57 I bought my first big (to some) sailboat. I had been around boats all my life both power and sail. I still have a bunch of them. I had sailed, but mostly on small and large wet boats in the past. Crewed a few times on bigger boats. I bought a 34 because it met my needs. I don't consider it a big boat, just a comfortable boat. It works for me. If I had started small I would not have had the family with me as much, would not have had the creature comforts I wanted, would have not ventured as far, and would have started trading up. How long should I take to get to the 34? How much financially would I have lost buying boats to get to the 34? Would I still be sailing?
In my mind, you did start small. You had dinghy sailing experience. I recognize that a keel boat is a different beast than a small centerboard sailboat. However, I contend that you more, faster, about sailing through learning to sail on a small boat than you ever can on a large boat. I don't consider starting with a 24-26 keel boat as "starting small" as far as size goes.

I find it interesting that the OP did not seem concerned about her fathers docking of the 40' boat. Maybe she was just glad to be tied up? Handling the 40' in a marina is usually a lot more disconcerting than the sailing part of the venture.
Most likely because the OP is inexperienced. I agree, handling a heavy boat in a marina, is a bigger learning curve. I used to be a pilot. Learning to fly was easy. Learning to take-off was more challenging. Learning to land was the hardest. That doesn't mean that you don't spend a lot of time learning how to handle in flight emergencies, but day to day, learning to land was the challenge.

Sailing is much the same. Being on the water is usually the easiest part. Leaving the dock is a bit more of a challenge, and docking a largish sailboat is a real challenge.

Dave
 

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If your kids are addicted to video games, you have no one to blame but yourselves. The video games are not at fault. You have failed to instill in your children a sense of curiosity about the world that drives them to explore and discover on their own (i.e. learning outside a classroom, reading books for pleasure, voluntarily going camping, etc). The number one distinction I can find between kids who turn out to be good, successful, interesting, and healthy vs those who do not is that their parents somehow made them curious. I have no idea how you go about doing this, however.
{at this point I'm thinking, Wow, this guy is harsh...}

I'm speaking from experience. I'm 26.
{Then it all became clear.}

You can speak from experience once you have raised some kids yourself. Heck, my kids are almost 20 and 22, and while folks tell me what great kids they are, I think the jury is still out. Let's see what they are doing with their lives and what their relationships are like when they are 30, and then I'll start to know how they turned out. Even if they turn out as great as I think they will, it will be more through Grace than my great parenting skills. :)

Dave
 

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dhays,

I still do not agree that people need to start small and work up. Hell, people start with much bigger boats than 40' and go on to sail them and live on them.

With the theory that you need to start small to learn to sail you take every baby boomer out of the game unless they per chance sailed a Sailfish when they were young. My generation does not like to be taken out of anything. If we want to do it we find a way to do it or fail trying. You say I should do it one way...because you think it is the right way......and most of us will salute you as we learned when young and give it our best. I am not a better sailor because I sailed a Sunfish, Sailfish, Dolphin, and a few others when I was young. I am a better sailor because I work at it, put in the miles to test myself, and because I love it.

Somehow I would rather think of the OP's father as thinking in that way rather than having an ego as suggested by some. In no place in the OP did it say that the father poo pooed the weather....it could have just as well been the brother. Sounds like a brother doesn't it? However, some people go to the dark side because they want to. I would prefer to think that the OP needs to do a little more research than post once on this board. Talk to the father, brother, whomever. By the way, has anyone noticed that we are just pissing in the wind as the OP has not been back to respond to us. Either we scared her away or her question was not answered to her satisfaction. On to another board! Imagine the reception she would get at SA! Think I will check to see if she posted there.
 

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I still do not agree that people need to start small and work up. Hell, people start with much bigger boats than 40' and go on to sail them and live on them.

With the theory that you need to start small to learn to sail you take every baby boomer out of the game unless they per chance sailed a Sailfish when they were young.
I probably didn't make myself very clear. I don't think that folks need to start small. I don't even think that folks should own a small sailboat before buying a large sailboat.

What I meant to say is that I think folks learn more about the act of sailing, how wind, waves, sail trim, weight distribution, etc... effect the boat by sailing small sailboats, than they do by learning to sail on a large sailboat. If a newbie sailor with money blows $300k on a new 40ft sailboat, that is great. However, I think it would be even better if he also spent time learning to sail in Laser's and 420's so he could translate those skills to his large boat.

I'm biased based on my experience. I freely admit that. I'm not saying that I'm a better sailor than those who have only sailed large boats. What I am saying is that I'm a better sailor than I would have been if I didn't have that experience.

Dave
 

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Handsome devil
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I'm biased based on my experience. I freely admit that. I'm not saying that I'm a better sailor than those who have only sailed large boats. What I am saying is that I'm a better sailor than I would have been if I didn't have that experience.

Dave
Very well articulated...and I will whole hardly agree with putting it in that perspective only!

Some people never connect the dots no mater how they climb the ladder...:eek:

Big or small their brains a wall..........hey that rhymes...:)
 

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Last winter, I took an ASA course down in the virgin islands (my first time aboard a sailboat and also my first time on the ocean). The other students were a mother and two (late teen) children. The first day out, we were in conditions basically exactly as you describe, and she was screaming constantly every time there was a wave or the boat heeled.

Oh no! I couldn't have handled that! Other people! :puke Our ASA course was strictly my Wife and I on a 37' boat. The Captain would arrive at 7ish and we would train, by 3ish we were done and he would leave us on the boat, either anchored, moored, or slipped (Our Choice). We had as a dinghy a 13' Boston Whaler with a 25hp Merc to explore with, so we would run with abandon all over the place. He would show up the next day for lessons and thats how we spent the best week I ever had.
 

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San Juan 21 MKII
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To me, the important thing is not to lose the kids to the Dark Side of the idiot box and idiot couch potato games. We need those kids on the water and they need to be out exploring the real world.
I prefer them in a dark room in front of a television where I don't have to deal with them, but if you insist on letting them out in public just make sure you keep them away from wakeboard boats.
 

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Doesn't sail enough
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I prefer them in a dark room in front of a television where I don't have to deal with them, but if you insist on letting them out in public just make sure you keep them away from wakeboard boats.
It's sad, but that really seems to be the widespread philosophy.

Maybe our approach is nutty, but we're pretty extreme on limiting the passive entertainment for our rugrats (3 so far, ages 1, 3 and 5). We don't have a TV. We do let them play kiddie games on the computer once in a while, not more than once every couple of weeks. And we have a DVD player for car trips, with videos from the library. Movies are special treats once in a while with the grandparents.

The amazing thing? They don't ask for it - they play very actively, love spending lots of time outside. When they need to chill out, they listen to music or read themselves books. Of course we read to them a lot too, which is why they've memorized every one of the zillion kid books we have.

For all that, I sympathize with parents who have to resort to the TV-as-babysitter. When your kids are bouncing of the walls and you're about to pop, you'll give anything for them to be occupied and not killing each other. Our kids are high-energy but pretty darn well-behaved. I wouldn't want to 24-7 some little kids I've seen/met.

Someone just offered me a sailboat built with little kids in mind (see the "Can you identify this boat?" thread I started a few days ago). I'm not sure I'm going to accept or that it'll work out, but I'm hoping it'll be a nice puzzle piece for helping my kids grow into inquisitive, outgoing, active adults.

I work with teenagers and I've seen too many who can't be bothered to get excited about or even commit to anything - they've been trained their whole lives to be passive consumers of entertainment. It's a heck of a habit to break.

I'm hoping the sailboat will be good for the teens too... :)
 

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1975 Newport 28
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If your kids are addicted to video games, you have no one to blame but yourselves. The video games are not at fault. You have failed to instill in your children a sense of curiosity about the world that drives them to explore and discover on their own (i.e. learning outside a classroom, reading books for pleasure, voluntarily going camping, etc). The number one distinction I can find between kids who turn out to be good, successful, interesting, and healthy vs those who do not is that their parents somehow made them curious. I have no idea how you go about doing this, however.

I'm speaking from experience. I'm 26. When I was a kid, I had a playstation console system and I also played a ton of computer games. I also watched quite a bit of TV. But it never consumed me. I spent tons of time outside in the woods, I spent tons of time reading, I spent a lot of time in the basement building things (my parents gave me a bunch of electronics kits, I later became an electrical engineer), and even when I was on the computer often I was learning (I'm a professional software engineer). The key to it all is curiosity, since that's what makes anything entertainment, instead of just things that are designed to be entertaining. The only conjecture I have as to what my parents did was answering all my questions when I was a kid, even going so far as to buy me kid-friendly encyclopedias so they could look up the answers to my questions (before I could read).
You seem to have missed the part of my post where I described all the outside endeavors to which we introduced the kids. But it's just that I'm a bad parent, sure.

My oldest just graduated from Penn State with an IT degree and is now training in Florida with his company's IT department.

My middle son is starting his third year of college.

My youngest -- the autistic -- was completely without speech at age two, and is now starting his senior year in HS, attends classes without an aide, is taking honors courses and speaks fluent German after three years of classes.

But yeah, you're probably right -- I'm just a non-caring bad parent.

[blows raspberry]
 

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48' wood S&S yawl
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.

My youngest -- the autistic -- was completely without speech at age two, and is now starting his senior year in HS, attends classes without an aide, is taking honors courses and speaks fluent German after three years of classes.
That is Awesome!
 

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Telstar 28
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You are clearly a bad parent, and you were probably encouraging them to become couch potatoes and the reason they've succeeded is because they've rebelled against your horrible parental influence. Why else would the youngest learn GERMAN??? ;)



You seem to have missed the part of my post where I described all the outside endeavors to which we introduced the kids. But it's just that I'm a bad parent, sure.

My oldest just graduated from Penn State with an IT degree and is now training in Florida with his company's IT department.

My middle son is starting his third year of college.

My youngest -- the autistic -- was completely without speech at age two, and is now starting his senior year in HS, attends classes without an aide, is taking honors courses and speaks fluent German after three years of classes.

But yeah, you're probably right -- I'm just a non-caring bad parent.

[blows raspberry]
 

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San Juan 21 MKII
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It's sad, but that really seems to be the widespread philosophy.
Just for the record, I am not a parent and I was kidding in any case. Well, except for the wakeboarding part.

The two most evil things on the water are oblivious parents hauling their small children around on various inflatable doo-dads behind overpowered boats at very high speeds and oblivious teenagers hauling each other around behind half-swamped and overpowerd boats at lower speeds.
 

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thoughts.............

The thought of transgessions of the young being that as it may brings to mind a whole puritanical ethic that pervades our jumbled lives. go forth and be strong. Answer the challenge of adventure not with whimsey but with a ruthless spirit that cannot be quenched, squelched or there by be smitten. Go sailing young lass, with all of your progeny in strength!!
 

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I'd second a lot of the opinions on here. It's natural to feel a little overwhelmed by a vessel, which is why I always recommend that people start with dinghy sailing or something hopefully in the <20 feet category. Even spending a few days of doing that in 5-15 knot winds in a harbor or on a lake will teach you a lot about sailing and let you feel a lot more comfortable.

When you're on bigger boats, you'll be able to tell when you're getting overpowered and when your sail controls aren't keeping up with the conditions. In my experience there's a bit too much abstraction going on with bigger boats and they don't have the necessary finesse to serve as a great learning platform.
 

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2nd childhood in progress
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A learning experience for many with this thread

{at this point I'm thinking, Wow, this guy is harsh...}

{Then it all became clear.}

Quote: I'm speaking from experience. I'm 26.

You can speak from experience once you have raised some kids yourself.

Dave
Not to knock dhays too much (as I genuinely expect that in hindsight you wish you had phrased your feelings somewhat differently), but I do agree with Dave here. Be careful when being quick to judge.

You may never go on to being a Dad, or you just may. Thirty years down the road you too may find yourself with boys who participate in other sports yet have an enduring passion for video games--despite exposing them to everything under the sun. Some people love sports, to read, to play video games, or (God forbid!) to sail. And they will still likely go on through life and have fulfilling careers and families of their own.

Critiquing someone's parenting successes and failures without any personal parenting experience to rely on is folly. More importantly, even if you do have parenting experience, as the saying goes, "Do not judge a man until you have walked a mile in his shoes" --you don't know the unique circumstances they have to deal with.

By the way, congratulations to jaschrumpf, sir. It sounds that you indeed have raised three fine boys any Dad would be very proud of.
 
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