[ScallywagSailor]

tl;dr I need advice on reasonable boat work nearish to NYC and a 2015 season marina up to 2 hours by train from NYC.

Hi all! My husband and I are bringing our '74 Islander 37 from Ventura, CA to the East Coast because we recently had to move because of work. We are fairly new to sailing and while we know our boat well and are competent in our home harbor and area, East Coast sailing is entirely foreign to us.

PART 1) We'd like to deliver the boat to a reasonable boat yard with competent people, accessible by train from NYC.

We will need to hire people to step the mast, and would like to re-rig standing and running rigging and do the bottom paint on the boat while it's out.

We need a good, safe place to do this at with reasonable rates, that we can then haul the boat in to go to our final destination harbor. We don't have a car, so fairly easy train access would be ideal.

Anywhere on Long Island is out of the question for this as it's considerably more for us to have the boat delivered there.

People and location suggestions for this are greatly appreciated.

PART 2) We're looking for a 2015 marina we can get to easily by train that feels out of the city.

For our actual 2015 marina, we're looking for a marina (with docks) that would be:

1) no more than 2 hours by train (ideally 1 hour) from Lower Manhattan, with walkable stuff nearby (we don't have a car). We've checked out Sheepshead Bay and the the Bronx and they were way too urban-feeling for us.
2) easy & fun for us newish sailors to navigate around, water & weather-wise.
3) has decent wifi available because we plan to work from it one day a week
4) Is small-dog friendly
5) Is fairly reasonably priced compared to other options in the same area

A tall order, I know. I've heard LIS will have our answer somewhere, but there are many places to choose from. We have no preference for side of the sound.

In Ventura, we have a slip at Ventura West, which had all these things except for access by train -- but we had a car coming from LA. So I have to think with the better public transport on this side that train-boating is possible!

Also, any and all other advice you have would be deeply appreciated!

 

[CalebD]

I'll bite.

Since Long Island is out of the question I'd suggest you look into Mamaroneck and Larchmont harbors in New York state.
Since the commuter train line on the north shore of LI Sound runs quite close to the coast you should look into the nearby harbors in Connecticut as well, as far out as Stamford (which just meets your <= 2 hour criteria).

The bad news is that "reasonably priced" options are not likely to be easy to find unless you go farther, or elsewhere, especially for a slip (as opposed to a mooring).

One "elsewhere" you should consider, if only for a season or two, is up the Hudson River. The commuter train runs right up the eastern side of the Hudson all the way up to Albany. The closest options along this train line are Tarrytown, Ossining and Croton. You can walk to the marinas/clubs from the train in minutes. It is actually quite pretty up at that part of the Hudson; I know since I keep my boat in Nyack but you'd need a car to do that.

As for stepping your mast and launching your boat I'd point out that Liberty Landing (in NY Harbor) and a few other marinas up to Haverstraw have the equipment to handle your boat and her rigging. Some of the marinas on the eastern side of the Hudson already mentioned may be able to handle your boat as well. I can't speak to the quality and care of work at any these yards but maybe others can. Be aware that you may pay a slightly higher price for your launching service without a contract for summer in water storage.

The water is saltier in the LI Sound but there are many attractive aspects to the brackish waters of the Hudson and the majestic cliffs on the western shore. The LI Sound is also within easy striking distance of the Sound should the urge catch you.

It is nice to have choices.

 

[davester]

I keep my boat at Lecomte Marina, New Rochelle New York in New Rochelle. I think it meets most of your criteria (but I don't know where it falls on the price scale - probably about average).
It is a very friendly place and definitely feels outside of the city. The train ride is about 35 minutes, plus a short taxi, and there are groceries and a few restaurants within walking distance. I really enjoy the sailing area, and the marina is very well protected in bad weather. (Full disclosure: I made that website for them)

 

[tempest]

Lockwood Boat Works in Morgan N.J. can do the work for you. There's a train station in South Amboy, a pretty short cab ride away. They have the best chandlery around.

For the slip, I'd try the Atlantic Highlands Municipal Marina. You can hop a ferry from lower Manhattan that will drop you off right there. Everything in the town is walkable and in the summer it's like a resort town. Dozens of restaurants, beach walks, dog friendly etc. Sandy Hook State Park is right next door. If they have a wait list, I'd still get on it. Things open up.

 

[ScallywagSailor]

Thanks for being so on it, all!

I have some silly questions, since I've only ever sailed on the Pacific and never rivers -- is it hard to sail on the Hudson with the current? Do you sail down and motor back up, typically? I've heard you can sail both ways but do you have small windows of currents and times of day to be able to do so? Keep in mind we are fairly mediocre sailors and still learning as we go

Also, is it hard to sail out of the Hudson and into LIS if we wanted to do that? (I know very very little about this area so the bodies of water/currents/sailing capabilities are totally new to me and I've seen lots of questions about going through Hell Gate so not sure if we should be worried about that).

Finally, for green sailors getting to know the area, would you recommend being on the Atlantic or in LIS to start off with? Figure I better ask that question outright, since we're really only used to going out in perfect SoCal weather.

 

[tempest]

Scallywag,

Sailing on the Lower Hudson can be a lot of fun. It does require one to pay attention to the tides and currents and there's a lot of traffic to contend with. Yes, if you time it wrong you could be bucking a decent current coming home.

It's pretty easy to Sail from the Hudson to LIS via the East River ( the 15 mile transit can be completed in about 2 hours with the current) Timing is everything.

For a number of reasons, I currently keep my boat on Raritan Bay. I have easy access to bay sailing, ocean sailing and the Hudson River and LIS.

My suggestion of the Atlantic Highlands opens all of that up to you. Somewhere on the Western LIS is certainly an option for you too. ( public transit)

I found the Lower Hudson to be somewhat limiting as a home port. It get's noisy. Helicopters flew over my slip all night. Not many places to anchor comfortably and just hang out. The docks at a few of the Marinas were poorly maintained and the wakes from the ferry traffic made their way past poorly constructed breakwaters, making it uncomfortable, requiring snubbers on docklines all at a premium cost.

There's trade-offs to everthing. Other people will offer their positives and negatives.
Based on your criteria, I thought the Highlands might be a good fit for you.

 

[ScallywagSailor]

That is super helpful, Tempest. We'll definitely check out the Atlantic Highlands as an option, it sounds great. And great info about the river, it's so fun to have so many close options that are less than a 3-6 hour sail away

 

[CalebD]

Scallywag,

We race our 27' Tartan up above the Tappan Zee Bridge (25 nautical miles north of the Statue of Liberty). Yes there is current that flows both ways but it is rarely more than 1 - 2 knots and makes it all the more interesting. We rarely use our engine for anything more than getting in or out from our mooring field (unless the wind dies). Recreational traffic is also minimal compared to LI Sound or Raritan Bay.

As the Tempest points out, the lower Hudson (bordering Manhattan) is quite full of commercial traffic which I wouldn't recommend for novices. This is not the case 25 miles upriver though. The commercial traffic up there is restricted to the channel but the river is 3 miles wide and approx. 10 miles long in this section. The scenery is like nowhere else around NYC as well with 300' tall rock cliffs. Bald Eagles are not an infrequent sight along with other wildlife. If you check my blog (in my signature below) there are some pictures of the area taken from our boat in my "photos" section.

In Ossining, I'd recommend the Shattermuc Yacht Club.

I should have mentioned the Raritan Bay in NJ but Tempest has already done that. I will say that you can still see lower Manhattan from much of Raritan Bay and I believe that it is a popular area for recreational boaters in the summer (eg., a tad crowded).

I think you'd be best served to do your own survey of these areas (rent a car) to see which you think might best serve your own criteria. Each geographic area has it's own pros & cons. There is a lot for you to research in order to make a decision you will be happy with. I'd bet that both Tempest and I would be happy to meet you & hubby to show you around our different areas.

 

[Minnewaska]

I would not recommend the Hudson. Sailed it as a kid and it felt pretty confining after only one season. The Lower Hudson may be less confining, but traffic will be greater, as pointed out.

I'm going to say that transiting from the Hudson to LIS is not practical for a weekend sailor. It is done all the time and Hells Gate just sounds bad a$$, its not a big deal, if you time the tides right. The timing is why its impractical, especially to go out and back on the same day.

Of your choices, I recommend sailing on LIS. It offers the most destinations, particularly with your desire to feel out of the city. Sailing across from LI to CT and back is fairly easy, even in one day, and prevailing winds generally support it. If you take a vacation aboard, you can easily head east and not see it all in a lifetime. A one hour train ride out on the Long Island side will still feel more like "people from the city" than up the CT side, but that's subjective on my part and possibly unfair. If you are looking to get away, I would think 90 mins, two hours even better. (I was born and raised in NYC metro area)

You want to check out Metro North trains that leave from Grand Central Station. Where exactly in NYC will you be living? This will make a difference, it's a big place. Manhattan and Brooklyn, for example, are two different worlds. It could take you a half hour just to get to Grand Central from Brooklyn.

Metro North has a New Haven Line that stops frequently along the LIS CT coastline. I'm sure several stops are walking distance to a marina. They also have a Long Island Railroad line, but I'm less familiar with distances to marinas from those and have a feeling the line is further from shore. No doubt taxis are readily available, however.

Another option is Amtrak, which leaves from Penn Station in NYC. It also runs up the CT coastline, but will run less frequently.

It's been too long for me to be able to recommend a specific marina. Something to consider is one of the Brewer's Marinas. They have about a half dozen inside your range and a couple of dozen up through New England. They also allow you a certain number of free nights at their other marinas, which is a nice weekend or cruising advantage. They operate a bit more like a big business than a mom and pop, but it really comes down to the staff at the particular yard. I'm sure you'll go meet with whomever you consider first.

Here's some links that might help.

Schedules | MTA

Brewer Yacht Yards & Marinas | Boat Storage, Dockage & Boat Repair

Waterway Guide Northern 2015 (Waterway Guide Northern Edition): Waterway Guide: 9780990395515: Amazon.com: [email protected]@[email protected]@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/[email protected]@[email protected]@61fdemyMP1L

 

[ScallywagSailor]

You all have been super helpful, and thank you so much for the links, Minnewaska. CT definitely looks like a great option for us, based on proximity and slightly lower prices than LI. We're going to rent a car and investigate this weekend or next. I'll report back to see if we'll end up being neighbors with any of you all!

Again, thanks for your kindness.

 

[tempest]

The question I would ask, and I don't know the answer to them all, is: Which marinas are closest to the train stations on either side of the LIS. (CT. or NY)

 

[billsull]

I'll take a shot at answering Tempest's question. I spend most of my time farther east on LIS, but I've been into South Norwalk and Mamaroneck in the past to drop off crew.

Here are some ports that combine a managable train ride with relatively short walk between the train station and the marina(s). I listed the walking distance in feet:

CT (Metro North Railroad):
South Norwalk ~2500' - lots of marina options, interesting anchorages right outside the harbor, great restaurants in South Norwalk! A little over an hour to get there from Grand Central Station on Metro North Railroad.

Cos Cob ~ 1000' - the marinas closest to the train station are inside the train bridge over the water, which means waiting for bridge openings when going to and from the marina on the boat. You'd also have to deal with a lot of car / truck noise (and dirt) from I-95 at the marinas in Cos Cob. 54 minutes from Grand Central.

Mamaroneck ~2500' - nice walk through town (lots of shops and restaurants) from the train station to Brewer's Marina (see Minne's post earlier in this thread). 40 minutes from Grand Central Station. FWIW, this would be my pick if I was commuting to the boat from NYC.


Long Island (Long Island Railroad):
Oyster Bay - ~1200' - All you have to do is walk across the tracks and through a park to get to Oyster Bay Marine Center. It's a little over 2 hours to get there by train from Grand Central Station on LIRR though.

 

[ScallywagSailor]

Thanks Bill! Checking them all out this weekend!

 

[Loki9]

Penn station to Oyster Bay is 80 minutes on the LIRR. It's a short walk from the station to the OBMC marina and next door is Sagamore Yacht Club. There are some members at Sagamore that live in the city and keep boats in OB, staying over weekends on their boats during the summer. It's a super nice place to sail.

 

[hellosailor]

Oyster Bay isn't "rural" but it is a nice town and a primary rail line. Good sheltered harbor and a fast trip into LI Sound and then plenty of options to go both ways.

Sailing the Hudson above NYC, eventually becomes a lot of twisting around and constrained commercial traffic although the Hudson Valley is beautiful. Sailing lower down, by NYC and the lower bay as well, no problem with 1-2 knot currents, nothing you can't handle under sail.

But sailing up from the Battery into the LIS via the East River, not so simple. Most folks want to do that timed for the current to be slack at or near Hells Gate, and having that at a convenient hour can mean there will be one weekend that suits you, in any given month. It isn't a hard trip or a long one, although few folks would want to to it under sail. Aside from oddities like square waves bouncing up from the bottom, fuel tankers popping up over your shoulder, and the ever-changing wind shadows blowing through the skyscrapers of Manhattan...It is rarely a casual trip but no, really, it is not a difficult one. Hells Gate itself became "easy" a hundred years ago, after the Army quite literally undermined acres of riverbed and then blew it to kingdom come. Along with a couple of pesky small islands that no longer exist.

Gateway Marina, across from Floyd Bennett Field in Brooklyn, might be a good place to keep the boat (after getting it rigged, etc. on the NJ side) if you'd rather duck out into the Atlantic directly. Very inconvenient to get out and up into LIS and not an easy entry because of shoaling, but convenient if you want to sail on the ocean side. Access by the subway from Manhattan, then a real short bus ride or fast cab ride. About as close to being out of the city, as you'll find in the city or near to it.

 

[jjablonowski]

Mamaroneck. For sure.
Go to www.activecaptain.com and check out the marinas and yacht clubs surrounding a well-protected harbor, all no more than a five-block walk from the Metro North train station.

 

[hellosailor]

Scallywag-
Forgive me if this is od news but there are some bureaucratic issues to deal with too. If the boat is USED in the waters of NJ (which means half of NY harbor too, of course) the wonderful Garden State now demands that whoever is skipper have a boating safety credential. Either a state course, or a national course, but a course and a credential--no grandfathering allowed. That's demanded from transients as well, according to the law. Go figure, heads up. The courses are cheap, or free online, just another nuisance for many.

And then there's the tax men, NY and CT both have long-time reps for loving taxes, although they may be pussycats compared to Cali. If your boat is registered or doc'd and homeported in one state, but kept on a long-term contract for a mooring or dock in another? You may get a demand letter asking for an explanation. CT would charge personal property tax (annually) on it, if they thought you were a CT resident as well. So while all those matters are unlikely to bite you, just be aware that you want to get all your ducks in a row. Simplest, if you'll be NY residents, to just deal with one new set of regs at a time. And of course, wherever you register it, they'll probably want use tax if you can't show sales tax was already paid on it.

The EPA strongly discourages disposal of tax collectors on the high seas. Sadly.

 

[miatapaul]

Well one thing to keep in mind, where you put it in now, is not where you have to keep it in the future. So you can try one place and if it is not convenient or does not make you happy then find someplace else. I live in the Hudson Valley and so I am a bit biased. I would suggest that you might want to think about some place like Whites Marina/New Hamburg yacht club as they are about an 1.75 hours from Grand Central station, and a short walk from the train station. Beacon Sloop club might be a good spot to moor it but they have no facilitates but the train station is across the parking lot. This area is beautiful, and would be a nice respite from the city for a couple of seasons. I agree that it may grow old but there are lots of shore side things to do such as the Vanderbilt, Roosevelt and other mansions. Lots to do and will be far more affordable than CT, LIS or NJ. As far as where to have work done, I would suggest having the boat put in at West Haverstraw Marina, very knowledgeable sailing crew, and you will not have to cross the Hudson so it will save some trucking expense(It is on the West side of the river). Nice marina as well with great amenities. Other marinas to think about that may not be as continent to the train are West Shore/Marlborough Yacht Club, a few in Newburgh, Chelsie Yacht Club, Nyack Boat Club. More expensive but convenient to the train there are a few marinas in the Tappen Zee and Ossining areas. Lots of choices on the river that range from full service with club and restaurants to mooring with no services at all.

Again after you tire of the area you can easily move on. We have lots of folks that live in the area that work in the city, but to me the commute would get old quick.

 

[Minnewaska]

Sales/Use, etc taxes are nothing to be afraid of. Just follow the rules. Whatever you may owe in NY would not be that different in CT. Put your boat wherever you will enjoy it most.

 

[cthoops]

-
CT would charge personal property tax (annually) on it, if they thought you were a CT resident as well.
.

Actually, while Connecticut loves its property taxes, so far it has spared taxing our boats. Don't tell anyone though, lest the state legislators start getting any ideas.