[dfaith]

My wife and I are intend to move our CS 36 Merlin from Vancouver Island to Mexico this fall.

I have a friend, who is off-shore certified and has lots of experience, who has offered to sail our boat to La Paz, at no charge to us. We would join the crew in San Diego at the end of October and will be doing the passage to La Paz.

I would like to have a notarized agreement signed, outlining his responsiblities as the "delivery captain" to us, as well as our responsibilities to him as the owners. Most of the general "delivery agreements" that I have found on line, seemed to be focussed on the "financial obligations" to the delivery captain.

I would like to get some advice/suggestions of items to include and/or a contract that someone has used in the past, under similar circumstances.

 

[capecodda]

We've used delivery captains only a few times over the years when time and circumstance didn't allow us to do it ourselves.

I've never had a delivery contact. I've always used highly vetted captains either that I knew directly or had been recommended by people I trust absolutely. We always check insurance. We work with a trusted local marine specialized insurance agent, tell him who's doing the delivery, and he contacts them to make sure their coverage + ours covers the delivery.

The sailing world is incredibly small, so it's pretty easy to figure out who the good guys are, and the good one's won't do deliveries on marginal vessels, so the checking goes both ways.

I'm not saying in any way you shouldn't have a contract, but for whatever it's worth, this is how we've done it.

 

[christian.hess]

how big a friend is he? the reason I say this is its a pretty big favor he is doing you by doing it for free

unless he is going to use the boat to take drugs down or fill up with chicks or whatnot(this is what you would put in the contract)...I would think.

id try to be as nice to him for such a favor...in other words make the boat sound, make sure there are no things undisclosed that would make his passage real hard or waste time with, etc..etc...

you know fill the bilge with some nice wine and beer for his services that kind of thing

also and this is just me, a non monetary delivery is hard to justify the need for a contract

there is nothing to counter demand the other party if something happens right?

if all of a sudden he doesnt like the boat and its not working for him it would be real hard to demand the guy keep going right? on what basis?

anyways good luck

 

[tommays]

who is off-shore certified

In the USA is there really such a thing ?

 

[christian.hess]

Vancouver is not the US...so I beleive he might be talking about Canadian Offshore Certification if indeed there is such a thing

just a guess jeje

 

[paulk]

From what I've gathered about Mexican (and possibly US) authorities, it might be a good idea for your delivery captain to have an official document showing that he has been designated to skipper your vessel for delivery to a specific port in Mexico. The more stamps, signatures and raised imprints the better. You wouldn't want him to be accused of piracy, and have the boat impounded en route. Issuing it in French might give pause to any over-eager Federales or Coasties too.

 

[jameswilson29]

who is off-shore certified

In the USA is there really such a thing ?

Yes, of course, we are the land of the gullible!

There is a certification, suitable for framing, for almost everything, one is dumb enough to pay money to someone claiming to be an expert on the subject.

Isn't that what all the ASA classes are about?

 

[aeventyr60]

Yes, of course, we are the land of the gullible!

There is a certification, suitable for framing, for almost everything, one is dumb enough to pay money to someone claiming to be an expert on the subject.

Isn't that what all the ASA classes are about?

James:

Isn't there some society offering a "super" title to those in professional occupations who do not hold a degree/title from an ivy league institution?
Maybe there is now a "Super" Yachtmaster/ASA/USCG certificate to indemnity all from spurious claims of malfeasance?

 

[davidpm]

I would like to get some advice/suggestions of items to include and/or a contract that someone has used in the past, under similar circumstances.

Some delivery captains want to have a gold or better credit card with your name on it when you are not on the boat.

It can really be a pretty good idea if you think about it.

Some minor problem happens, maybe something as simple as contaminated fuel.
He gets to a safe harbor.

With your card he makes the call, gets the tank emptied, fuel polished or replaced and filters changed and is back in business in one day.

Without your card he is on the phone trying to track you down. Yard will not take payment without card present. Have to sort that out. Finally after three days you get sorted out. Miss your weather window and now have to pay for slippage at $5 per foot for a week plus extra travel expenses. All told the delay costs you an extra 3k easy.

If you don't trust the guy with your card maybe you shouldn't trust him with your boat.

 

[jameswilson29]

...
I would like to have a notarized agreement signed, outlining his responsiblities as the "delivery captain" to us, as well as our responsibilities to him as the owners...

Why do laypersons always want everything in writing notarized?

What do you believe that would add to your contract?

Is a regular written contract without notarization unenforceable?

 

[Donna_F]

If he's a friend, I think just ask him upfront what his expectations are and share yours with him. If he takes offense and won't try to understand your point of view (whether or not he agrees with it), the friendship wasn't all that. It's still your boat and your responsibility to make sure the person sailing it knows what he or she is doing.

 

[Stumble]

Why do laypersons always want everything in writing notarized?

What do you believe that would add to your contract?

Is a regular written contract without notarization unenforceable?

The are real advantages of a notarized document. It depends greatly on where you are, but generally a notarized document is self proving. Ie the notarization is proof that the person who signed the contract is who they said they were. So if it's also the person who owns the boat, then a notarized delivery contract proves the owner hired this skipper to move his boat without further research. The exact same document but non-notarized may need to be proven to be valid by contacting the owner.

In the US this isn't currently terribly important because of modern communication, but in Latin America notarized documents are critically important and still have much more weight than just signed ones.

For anything where self proving is important, ie where time constraints are at issue, or where getting both parties in the room at the same time may be difficult or expensive notarizing them is a good policy.

I also recommend that on a boat you store these documents in a vacuum sealed bag. NOT laminated. If the official needs to feel the embossment a vacuum sealed bag can be opened and then resealed to protect them.

 

[jackdale]

Check with your insurance company that this arrangement is OK with them and whether are not a rider is necessary.

Some delivery skippers are adamant about what gear is required for the delivery. I have delivered a couple of offshore race boats, so their gear was up to snuff.

You might be able to get some document notarized for free, you do not need to go through a lawyer.

 

[christian.hess]

but it comes down to

THIS IS A FREE DELIVERY...

this isnt normal delivery talk...basically its like loaning a boat...and hoping it doesnt get damaged and that both parties are happy in the end

 

[Minnewaska]

You would have to argue that his use of your boat was consideration for contract, because without consideration, the contract could be voidable. In other words, your skipper can't be bound to a contract, if they aren't paid.

In the end, the contract is silly, IMO. The bottom line is that the owner is fully responsible for the boat, period. I remember when I first learned that. Hard to swallow, but its the way it works. The point about checking with your insurance carrier is the critical feedback above. I've had times when they added the rider for free and times when they wanted a few hundred dollars. They've always wanted a copy of the deliver skippers certificate.

 

[jameswilson29]

I disagree. Consideration can be the exchange of mutual promises, with benefit and detriment. The contract must be drawn to show what is being exchanged to accomplish the OP's purposes. It does not take much to show consideration. For the OP's sake, he should shift all the risk to the friend willing to do this for free. The friend is essentially gaining the use of the boat for the delivery period in return for assuming all the risks. Of course, the prudent thing would be to hire a professional delivery captain who knows what he is doing.

Here are some search terms for the OP to research:

Gratuitous bailment
Payment in kind
Promises as consideration
Standard of care of bailee
Strict liability
Risk of loss
Negligence
Bailee's duties
Liability of yacht owner
Jones Act
Conflict of law in yacht delivery
Governing law in multistate delivery contract

Read the statutes, cases and commentary on these legal issues. Read your insurance policy to determine if your insurance will cover this kind of arrangement. I like Google Advanced Scholar for free internet research. You can find almost all the reported cases there. After spending several days researching the law, the OP may be able to prepare his own contract, assuming he is minimally intelligent and has some command of the English language, or realize he should have hired a maritime law lawyer in his jurisdiction in the first instance.

Or he can just use a handshake deal and suffer all the consequences. It is fun to bring or defend a lawsuit - if one is the lawyer running on his hourly rate!

 

[smurphny]

One of the most effective ways to lose a friend is to hire him/her to do a job for you. This "free" offer is well intentioned but much more fraught with pitfalls than a friend watering your plants when you're away. If this friend wants to go sailing, leave it at that: you're lending him the boat and he's not doing you any favor, compensated or not. Just make sure your insurance covers lending the boat. Hiring a pro might be a better idea.

 

[christian.hess]

lending a boat is even more dangerous! jajaja

seriously I think there are two very different topics being discussed here

1. a loan of a boat on international travel

2. the hiring of an individual for "free" with a contract which as has been stated is very hard to do BECAUSE there is nothing to counter attack the other party with...

like I said before if you all of a sudden dont like the thought of your buddy sailing your boat for whatever reason that means you will be inconveniencing your friend quite a bit and changing his plans greatly with added expense

likewise if he doesnt like you boat for whatever reason or the trip bores him how are you the owner going to get him to stand by his word on a PAYLESS delivery

the contract in essence is the agreement of payment and on what terms...

 

[Minnewaska]

Sometimes the technical will take too long to engage in and is pointless.

The practical, even within the law, is what really matters. In the delivery business, the owner assumes the risk to their boat. It's just the way it actually works, in real life.

We can spend the afternoon on exceptions for gross negligence, etc, but it isn't the norm.

Also mentioned above was the idea of lending your boat to a friend. That being the case, I would also say the same as if you were lending money. Do not do it, unless you have no intentions of getting it back and are good with that.

 

[christian.hess]

yup

real world is different from the fine print...you can cover yourself all you want but if your trying to avoid all risk and damages by thinking a contract will cover it in the real world sometimes it wont go your way

as an owner having a total loss should always be in your mind and you should be willing to accept this...no matter what, insurance or not...friend or you at the helm doesnt matter

accept the risk or dont do it...

peace