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Telstar 28
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I'd second Bubb's suggestion. Its what I would do if I were in your shoes.. Closing the sale now with money in escrow is a bad idea IMHO, since it gives you fewer options. Given the current financial climate, I don't see why the owner would risk losing a seriously interested buyer—especially since the financial picture is probably going to get worse before it gets better...and I doubt it's going to clear up before spring. :)
 

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Unpaid Intern
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Discussion Starter #22 (Edited)
I'd second Bubb's suggestion. Its what I would do if I were in your shoes.. Closing the sale now with money in escrow is a bad idea IMHO, since it gives you fewer options. Given the current financial climate, I don't see why the owner would risk losing a seriously interested buyer—especially since the financial picture is probably going to get worse before it gets better...and I doubt it's going to clear up before spring. :)
I agree, sailingdog--can't see any reason why we wouldn't start there anyway. I'm not sure where we'd go if the seller says "no" to waiting until spring. It would take a very large escrow account to make us feel very comfortable with that situation, and even then we're not sure. But we can start with where we're comfortable and see what happens. In this financial atmosphere, even if we like a boat, we're not going to get into anything where we're uncomfortable. No reason to do that.

Thanks again!
-J
 

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Telstar 28
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Good luck Joz... glad to help. :)
 

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Unpaid Intern
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Discussion Starter #25
OK, so here's where we're at. After a bunch of research, and some long conversations with my surveyor in that area, the escrow thing is pretty much the way it's done. Most relevant, we've already been told by the seller that he won't go for a deal that won't close until Spring. Escrow he's a agreeable to.

My surveyor says that he can survey the boat to the extent that we'll know the engine won't need major overhaul (yes, sea trial could show a fault, but not a major repair/replacement scenario). He runs the engine on the hard up to operating temperature, does an oil analysis (unless the oil's just been changed), and will look over every inch of the boat and gear.

All that said, I'm still having a hard time biting the bullet on this one. I'm clear that this is the way it's often done up there in these scenarios (boat's on the hard, winterized, covered, mast unstepped, and blocked in by other boats already), and that it probably works just fine in 99% of the cases. I also know we like this boat (both my wife and I feel the same about it), and we'd like to buy it. I'm just having a hard time with not getting to fully check out everything before buying, even if that's common place in winter up there.

I don't know that a "better" boat is likely to show up before spring (this one is very nice), but a "closer to home" boat might. On the other hand, it might not, and then I've blown my own creed of "the right time to buy is when you find the right boat at the right price".

Anyway, I'm just venting a bit. We believe this to be the right boat for us, we just wish this deal could be more simple.
-J
 

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Aquaholic
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-j-, if it were simple, that itself would probably throw up a warning flag!

Face it, big decisions on big $ items will always exhibit a measure of risk; the only question is what degree of risk are you willing to live with, once everything that can be accounted for has been?

Best of luck.
 

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Think of a fair price in the spring, with the boat in the water and an enjoyable test sail. Then take that price and subtract 20% because you're not getting the boat in the water or a nice test sail.

It's hard to buy a boat without a test sail, unless I had sailed almost the exact same design for several days. Boats don't always handle or sail the way you expect, and how are you supposed to evaluate the sails if the mast is down other than just unfolding them (and hoping they're cut correctly).
 

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Offer a letter of credit from you bank, that the financing will be there once the survey and sea trial are completed and found to be satisfactory. Don't talk about cash in the bank. Remember they are holding your down payment all this time until spring. Make the whole deal subject on financing and make the bank the bad guy right now. This is why you keep a banker as a friend.
 

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If she is the right boat you will know. Try looking at it the other way around.
If someone else buys this boat out from under you, will that be okay, or will you regret it for a long time?
If it is the former, keep looking but keep it on your list.
If it is the later, do what you need to to make it happen.
No regrets.
 

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Unpaid Intern
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Discussion Starter #31
How long has the boat been on the market? If it has been for sale for a long time the possibility it will sell over the winter is probably not as great.
Not very long. If I had to guess, I'd say it will sell. Not trying to undercut my situation, but I've been looking at this and a few other models for a while now, so I know what's been on and not on the market lately. Might not sell today or tomorrow, but I wouldn't bet it'll be sitting around in 5 months.
 

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Mud Hen #69, Mad Hatter
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Here's some thinge to consider with a long distance romance.

Of course the price of the boat and the survey. Here's what I just forked out on top of that:

Freight $1,600
Rigger to winterize, pack & wrap: $1,525
This included pump-out, a minor engine repair (known fuel leak from survey) but a bit of a surprise to clean the bilge as fuel had leaked in past the oil sump pan and the rigger would not move the boat with a potential oil discharge situation - $125 for clean-out plus $50 to tighten the hose at the fuel pump.

Yard to store (while the de-rigger worked), haul and set on truck: $725

Problem I had was that the boat was at a small community dock, the yard it was delivered to wouldn't touch the boat other than to haul & unstep the mast.

Among the details: I had to pay $5/day for the mast to lay on a rack (two days). Transient fees of $74.75 per day (for two days). $46.30 for a powerwash plus $22 for "environmental" that went along with it.

Ka ching, ka ching, ka ching.

That's $3,850 I would have saved if I bought a boat I could have delivered to my slip myself.
 

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Unpaid Intern
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Discussion Starter #33
Here's some thinge to consider with a long distance romance.

Of course the price of the boat and the survey. Here's what I just forked out on top of that:

Freight $1,600
Rigger to winterize, pack & wrap: $1,525
This included pump-out, a minor engine repair (known fuel leak from survey) but a bit of a surprise to clean the bilge as fuel had leaked in past the oil sump pan and the rigger would not move the boat with a potential oil discharge situation - $125 for clean-out plus $50 to tighten the hose at the fuel pump.

Yard to store (while the de-rigger worked), haul and set on truck: $725

Problem I had was that the boat was at a small community dock, the yard it was delivered to wouldn't touch the boat other than to haul & unstep the mast.

Among the details: I had to pay $5/day for the mast to lay on a rack (two days). Transient fees of $74.75 per day (for two days). $46.30 for a powerwash plus $22 for "environmental" that went along with it.

Ka ching, ka ching, ka ching.

That's $3,850 I would have saved if I bought a boat I could have delivered to my slip myself.
Thanks Delirious. Point well-taken. We'll be delivering the boat ourselves (in Spring), and winterization has already been done, and I believe winter storage is all paid for (we're verifying this). We would have to pay to restep the mast in the spring of course. Splashing the boat is also already paid for with the original haul-out and blocking.

Of course, we still have hotel stays and gas to visit the boat and do some work over the winter, bottom paint in the spring, and probably a myriad of other stuff to get ready to sail her home. So I'm sure it will add up. Hopefully not too much though!
 

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Discussion Starter #34
We made an offer!

We don't expect to hear back until the morning at the earliest. It will be interesting to see what they come back with. We made an offer with terms that work for us and where we feel comfortable under the circumstances. If they reject the offer, or counter with something we don't feel comfortable with, then we will move on.

Hopefully, we can come to an agreement. For once, I'd like to post pictures on this forum! So far, everything keeps falling through!
-J
 

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if things keep falling thru there is a reason. but aside from that where is the boat what is she? inquiring minds need to know. we bought our boat in November after survey. owner had no prob. with escrow account for motor, elect from motor etc, checked what we could during survey, hull moisture, decks etc./ visual mechanics. moisture in decks (found some) our boat was a
feeling, ((first(big boat)) we owned, always ran day sailors or chartered. It was a local boat not like yours, but you still have the same apprehensions. there were some things the surveyor missed very minor stuff but. notice i can say a but we ended up putting more money in, in the spring but more for my own piece of mind than what the surveyor called for. note i got a $2500.00 decrease in price with surveyor.
you mention you have to pay to have the stick put back in. up here in the northeast it is usually part of decommissioning to restep mast in the spring so i would check on that with the orig hauler. either seller is trying to recoup on their circumstances or the hauler is trying to fatten their bootom line.
 

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Unpaid Intern
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Discussion Starter #36
if things keep falling thru there is a reason. but aside from that where is the boat what is she? inquiring minds need to know. we bought our boat in November after survey. owner had no prob. with escrow account for motor, elect from motor etc, checked what we could during survey, hull moisture, decks etc./ visual mechanics. moisture in decks (found some) our boat was a
feeling, ((first(big boat)) we owned, always ran day sailors or chartered. It was a local boat not like yours, but you still have the same apprehensions. there were some things the surveyor missed very minor stuff but. notice i can say a but we ended up putting more money in, in the spring but more for my own piece of mind than what the surveyor called for. note i got a $2500.00 decrease in price with surveyor.
you mention you have to pay to have the stick put back in. up here in the northeast it is usually part of decommissioning to restep mast in the spring so i would check on that with the orig hauler. either seller is trying to recoup on their circumstances or the hauler is trying to fatten their bootom line.

Thanks Mike, we'll check on the stick, but when I asked the yard separately (they didn't know I was inquiring about any specific boat, just their prices), they said they charge for the stick each way, but everything else is round trip. So the haul, winterization, storage for the whole winter, and splashing in spring is paid for already. I will be sure to get the records on this particular boat from them if we get to survey, so then I'll know for sure what's been paid for already.

I'll let everyone know what we hear back from the sellers. If we get to survey and that goes well, then I'll reveal the boat AND pics. :) The previous two boats fell through for reasons out of our control (all on the seller or the boat). Hopefully this one won't. Besides we like this one the best anyway. :)
 

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Jozrulz

I have been reading this thread from beginning to end and followed the other two as well. The feeling I got from reading in sequence was that you were hooked and had decided this wasthe boat even before your offer was made.

One good thing abou a boat on the hard. It is very hard to hide deficioencies and far easier to survey. I would normall prefer t buy a boat n the hard than one already in waterfor taht reason

Good luck!

Mike
Nut Case
 
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