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....Frankly I find this appears to be yet another way high net worth individuals can avoid the taxes that the rest of us pay.

But there are solutions. Foreign flagged US owned vessels could be assessed with fees whenever they enter US waters. If they don't want to pay.... stay away!
This was your initial reaction to this new rule. We effectively close our borders to foreign vessels. There is no such thing as a foreign flagged US owned vessel. They are owned in a foreign country. If I buy stock in Lufthansa, as a US citizen, they should suddenly be subject to your fees? Rather nationalistic and completely uninformed. If you're trying to say that no US person can own anything overseas, without paying a vig to the US mob boss, you must oppose all international trade and competition. Makes me wonder if you even read the new rule, as it doesn't even touch your biased point of view in the first place.

absolutely
This proves the point. You are demonstrably wrong, other than a random anecdote perhaps, but believe in something like a cult or religious follower would. No facts, just faith.

I'll stick with the facts and take comfort that extremists on both sides are truly insignificant in our democracy. They just make a lot of noise.
 

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Re: Oh boy, oh boy oh boy.......

This was your initial reaction to this new rule. We effectively close our borders to foreign vessels. There is no such thing as a foreign flagged US owned vessel. They are owned in a foreign country. If I buy stock in Lufthansa, as a US citizen, they should suddenly be subject to your fees? Rather nationalistic and completely uninformed. If you're trying to say that no US person can own anything overseas, without paying a vig to the US mob boss, you must oppose all international trade and competition. Makes me wonder if you even read the new rule, as it doesn't even touch your biased point of view in the first place.



This proves the point. You are demonstrably wrong, other than a random anecdote perhaps, but believe in something like a cult or religious follower would. No facts, just faith.

I'll stick with the facts and take comfort that extremists on both sides are truly insignificant in our democracy. They just make a lot of noise.
Whatever.... no I didn't read the "new rule". My position is simply that tax avoidance is unethical. I don't know why US citizens need to flag their megayachts in tax havens.,.. Caymen Islands and so forth. And I presume it is to avoid paying some fee or tax that they can well afford.

I am not going to fight over this and the Luftansa example is completely off the mark.... They are a commercial operation and domiciled in Germany and pay landing fees etc. as any plane / fleet would.

If you want to buy property off shore... if it is allowed in the country... I am sure they expect you to pay taxes etc. and not avoid them by claiming you are a US citizen.

I am done with this discussion. Taxes are intended to level the playing field a bit and in the case of the wealthy pay not avoid what they can well afford. If you disagree... there is nothing I can say to you.
 

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Old soul
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Re: Oh boy, oh boy oh boy.......

A Bloomberg article from October 14 claims that for 2016, "The top 1 percent paid a greater share of individual income taxes (37.3 percent) than the bottom 90 percent combined (30.5 percent).
The top 50 percent of all taxpayers paid 97 percent of total individual income taxes."
How much is enough?
This is like saying: “Most accidents occur near the home.”

The reason the top 1% paid more taxes is b/c they have most of the income — by A LOT!

The top 1 percent of families took home an average of 26.3 times as much income as the bottom 99 percent in 2015, according to a new paper released by the Economic Policy Institute, a non-profit, nonpartisan think tank in Washington, D.C.
or

In 2012, the top 10 percent of earners took home 50 percent of all income. That's the highest percentage in the last 100 years. The top 1 percent took home 20 percent of the income, according to a study by economists Emmanuel Saez and Thomas Piketty.

By 2015, America’s top 10 percent already averaged more than nine times as much income as the bottom 90 percent. And Americans in the top 1 percent averaged over 40 times more income than the bottom 90 percent. The chart (below) shows a breakdown of average household incomes ranging from the bottom 90 percent to the top .1 percent.
As to your question of “how much is enough?” You do realize the tax rates have dropped considerably for the wealthy in the USA since their peak in the 1960s. This was the period where the rising tide DID float all boats (economically speaking). It was also a time of great innovation, as well as social and infrastructure expansion.



How much is enough? Each society must decide that for themselves. The USA has clearly decided that it is best to allow most of the income, and definitely most of the wealth, to concentrate in a few hands. Other societies have gone the opposite direction. And most are somewhere in between.
 

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Re: Oh boy, oh boy oh boy.......

I am 60. I have worked since I was ten years old. I bought mini bikes, boats and comic books. I was privileged to have had jobs.

I went to a fine university and graduate school.

Money is funny. I know I need to pay my bar bill and will do my part for those who have less.

The fact is, the rich are getting richer and hard working folks don't make enough to live on.

It has been true for recorded time.

People some times resent me. I have worked, saved, given and lived. I understand the resentment. That's why I try to help when I can.

As a bit of student of economics, my understanding in this inequality of wealth and wages undermines the "American Dream". Quotes because people dream and love and have blue skies the world around.
 

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Captain Obvious
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Re: Oh boy, oh boy oh boy.......

.... our government should be providing twice the services for their current tax collections. Why don't they? Because there is absolutely zero incentive for them to be efficient, it's substantially easier to just raise the rate.
Thats because they waste half the discretionary budget on military spending. Its not so much inefficiency as it is simple math. We spend close to a trillion a year on military. Canada spends $20 billion. They can pave the roads and have healthcare.

 

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Re: Oh boy, oh boy oh boy.......

Not only Canada. Most of the world thinks the Us system has it's head up it's collective butt. The Gini Index is nigh.
 

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Dakota Lee
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Re: Oh boy, oh boy oh boy.......

US spends a lot on defense which many countries avoid by sheltering behind it protective umbrella. This projection is hard to place a value on but Poland’s recent offer of 2 Billion to pay for a base for US forces on their soil. Gives a idea that protection provide for free by the US does have a value.

In regards to our tax and human resource laws we have succeeded in destroying our boat building industry, our merchant marine heritage as well as our general aviation community.

We need to quit “eating our young” and celebrate all recreational boaters from the smallest skiff to the mega vessels. We all have more in common than we have in differences. I worked for 40 years and could have pretty much any sailing vessel I wanted...wife input not withstanding. That being said I sail basic keelboats that are basically available to just about anybody that wants to sail. I find it perplexing that a new paddle board is more expensive in acquisition costs than a 20 foot classic plastic sailboat, much less that mega vessel owners routinely spent millions of dollars a year just to maintain their vessels.

I don’t harbor resentment for those that have mega vessels anymore than I would for someone that lives in a huge mega mansion.

V/r

Pete
 

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Re: Oh boy, oh boy oh boy.......

Thats because they waste half the discretionary budget on military spending. Its not so much inefficiency as it is simple math. We spend close to a trillion a year on military. Canada spends $20 billion. They can pave the roads and have healthcare.
The $20 billion "wasted" on military spending is what the Constitution calls for (the provision of it - not the amount) - it is allocated via annual "discretionary" budgets - it's 20% of the annual budget, and 50% of the discretionary budget. *All* the other spending is not part of the Constitution, yet Medicare and Social Security (yet sold as self-funding) is mandatory in the budget, yet is mentioned nowhere in the Constitution. And then the "budget" is vastly exceeded with debt now over $20 Trillion and rising. Estimates of *unfunded* liabilities (pensions, etc) place that seldom discussed number over $200 Trillion. Within a few years the interest alone on the debt will exceed Defense.
 

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Re: Oh boy, oh boy oh boy.......

US spends a lot on defense which many countries avoid by sheltering behind it protective umbrella. This projection is hard to place a value on but Poland’s recent offer of 2 Billion to pay for a base for US forces on their soil. Gives a idea that protection provide for free by the US does have a value.

In regards to our tax and human resource laws we have succeeded in destroying our boat building industry, our merchant marine heritage as well as our general aviation community.



Pete
The USA has given away its jobs. Given away its industries and allows most other countries to freely use its military capacity.

Iike anyone who gives things away, the USA has become despised by those that have received the gifts.

Canada despises the USA because you defend them for free and have given them advantageous trade deals.

Mexico likewise despises the USA and won't even stop the caravan. Mexico loves to lack of borders to allow it to transfer illegal guns and drugs freely into the USA.

France despises the USA and Macron says the USA is the enemy to be defended from.

Entities despise the USA. Amazon, Google, Facebook et al pay little or no tax, spy upon its people and influence elections.

Etc etc etc.

But the worst despisers of the USA are the people inside it who gave away America's wealth and continue to do so.


As they say in the Classics: you have reaped now you must lie in the bed.
 

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Captain Obvious
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Re: Oh boy, oh boy oh boy.......

The $20 billion "wasted" on military spending is what the Constitution calls for (the provision of it - not the amount) - it is allocated via annual "discretionary" budgets - it's 20% of the annual budget, and 50% of the discretionary budget. *All* the other spending is not part of the Constitution, yet Medicare and Social Security (yet sold as self-funding) is mandatory in the budget, yet is mentioned nowhere in the Constitution. And then the "budget" is vastly exceeded with debt now over $20 Trillion and rising. Estimates of *unfunded* liabilities (pensions, etc) place that seldom discussed number over $200 Trillion. Within a few years the interest alone on the debt will exceed Defense.

I agree with you that the $20,000,000,000 is what the constitution calls for. I'm saying it's the $800,000,000,000 military spending that is wrecking the budget; that and the $6,000,000,000,000 on the Iraq/Afgan and other wars. Thats $18,461 per person plus $2500 per year! Per person. Including babies and old ladies, everyone.

I had 5 dependents for most of that time so they took about $100,000 plus $12,500 per year from me.

I'm supposed to bend over, smile and say thank you? Hell no......that's for you to do. Be sure to lick their boots at the same time, they like that.

As for social security, that has no effect on the budget. Its literally our money in and our money out. You are right though, old people being able to eat and grandma getting her medicine are not mentioned in the constitution. You are a saint.

If I were to imagine a brain washed citizen, I could not dream up a more extreme example than a person who is proud to give his hard earned money to Ratheon and black water while denying his own grandma her medicine and dinner.
 

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Re: Oh boy, oh boy oh boy.......

1. A revision back to taxes being used for revenue not to change behavior would do much to simplify and correct the system. Money is money. If all income regardless of source was taxed in the same manner much of the income inequality would dissipate. Similarly if the extensive system of tax credits were to be curtailed much of the lobby money would leave politics. Both parties are disincentivezied from doing so.
2. I like mega yachts. Not on an ecological basis where they are a disaster like cruise ships but because they create various ports where I can bring my boat and get services. Similarly they keep the infrastructure alive in places like St.Martin and St. Bart’s as well as Newport and Ft. Lauderdale.
3. There is a different system for taxing houses than boats. Once a boat is big enough to serve as a house it should be taxed in a similar manner. Same with RVs. Many people in Massachusetts and Connecticut document their boats in Rhode Island to avoid sales tax. These are middle class people not 1%ers. Many people periodically leave the country to avoid use taxes. Again middle class people spending dollars earned in the US but spent in foreign countries to avoid prohibitive taxing. Given folks live in their boats or RVs with no other address or split the year between house and boat/RV the system is unfair. You can get a tax write off on your boat as it’s considered a second home as regards mortgages but then have it considered a luxury good and taxed at the state sales tax rate. Ridiculous.
4. I’m US flagged. It costs me money to be US flagged. It makes me a target in some places I go or want to go. I wish that would change.
 

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Re: Oh boy, oh boy oh boy.......

So.... I leave my boat for a few minutes... It's in St Katherine Docks, London... And when I get back there's Elves on the deck!

Dunno what they're doing.

I yelled at them but they stood still and ignored me.


:(
 

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bell ringer
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Re: Oh boy, oh boy oh boy.......

So.... I leave my boat for a few minutes... It's in St Katherine Docks, London... And when I get back there's Elves on the deck!

Dunno what they're doing.

I yelled at them but they stood still and ignored me.


:(
stop your whining, it could have been much worse

there could have been fairies
 

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Re: Oh boy, oh boy oh boy.......

So.... I leave my boat for a few minutes... It's in St Katherine Docks, London... And when I get back there's Elves on the deck!

Dunno what they're doing.

I yelled at them but they stood still and ignored me.:(
I know a lot of countries are moving towards legalized cannabis, but I didn't think that included psychedelics.
 

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Master Mariner
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Re: Oh boy, oh boy oh boy.......

Are they at least American elves?
I believe Mark is in London and he is an Aussie, so I would kinda doubt that they are American elves, considering Schengen and all. lol
 
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Re: Oh boy, oh boy oh boy.......

This is wrong on many levels

The U.S. has the currency in everyone's banks. Across the world, deals are don in U.S. dollars.

We spend far too much on defense.

Our rich get richer while a highly productive middle class pay the freight. And we have the worst health care coverage and the greatest poverty among the poor in the industrialized world.
 
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