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On the hard
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3,502 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
to help with Oh Joy. We managed to get almost everything disconnected from the motor so we can pull it.

Scott taking a break..



Jody



Me in the hole yanking on a hose...



Scott in the hole



Jody's pooch



Unfortunately, Jody's motor blew on the way home so I had to go and give him a ride home. I didn't realize he was making a 220 mile roundtrip to come help. I thought he was coming from Seattle.
 

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Banned
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17,467 Posts
Jody, dude, you have been taking some hard knocks lately. You're a good guy though - that's obvious. Keep your hands up and your chin down, bro, you'll be good.

Charlie, nice job on the trapezing off the tiller!
 

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Wandering Aimlessly
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22,037 Posts
What's a 4 hour drive among friends? I still remember the gift certificate Scott sent me last year. The generosity of Sailnetters is one of the great parts about the forum.
 

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3,146 Posts
Yeah, thanks for the ride back Charlie....When I lived out in PA, it was a routine 200 mile trip (old habits die hard) but at least its highway miles...Will be back up Monday - luckily I still have drivable vehicles. Hopefully I can be part of the engine removal - need some work that provides anger management release! [Edit: Mustang Engine blown - head gasket, not going to repair as can't afford it as replacement engine needed... sigh..will get it towed try selling it on CL if not becomes scrap...]

It was nice meeting Scott as well (extremely nice guy), looking forward to meet up again when his boat is finally back out on the water.

Smack - yeah, the problem with keeping hands up high is the gut is exposed (learned that from the smack down thread). However, I learned that if you do have six pack abs keeping a six pack there works wonders...

BTW diagnosis on the wiring issue just for others to read and troubleshooting the reverse polarity issue. The long version...

Normally, reverse polarity issues on a boat that has symptoms just appear when at a new dock, facility or the likes is simply the plugs. Providing strain relief at the dock breaker will usually do the trick (bungie cord etc).

In Charlie's case, none of the simple tricks worked. He has relatively new distribution panels as evident by the use of Blue Sea Panel's / breakers that were second design generation (still sold, but the 360 version is the latest and greatest from Blue Sea).

His panel is recessed under the cockpit sole just behind the ladder. The original PO did a fairly decent job on the wiring. Covers on the main AC distro panel. Which brings me to remind myself to ask Charlie if we can cut a slit in the cover to remove the cover completely as all wires are led through a hole and cover can not be removed without pulling all wiring (PITA for adding new circuits).

At any rate, removing the cover, you could smell the burnt wiring. The main AC circuit breaker was the culprit. The Hot and Neutral connections had connected causing a short, burning up the wiring and causing the reverse polarity / tripping the breaker.

The short never should of happened. This is where discussions such as Maine's wiring tutorial should be read by those doing the DIY approach. The original PO had simply crimped connectors on. When using the normal cheap crimping techniques, the dies or tool will usually eat through the connectors plastic coating. Note: The protective panel on the back is not designed to be waterproof, merely to prevent electrical shock.

Theory 1: With the wiring so close to each other, and even with the panel covered on the backside, water still get in and completed the circuit. Once the zip tied wires reached melting point - it was a instant soldered connection.

Theory 2: Just flipping the breaker is enough to allow the breakers to move and allow the exposed bits of the connectors to come in contact.

Corrective procedures:

Replace the circuit breaker. While they could possibly be re-used, once exposed to the heat and arcing etc, they should no longer be considered reliable.

Replace the damaged wiring with new.

Make sure all connectors are covered with heat shrink and I like to add electrical tape on top of that for extra protection. In addition covering it with electrical liquid (forget the name so lets call it..) gunk. Same stuff you use to protect in bilge locations which this panel qualifies for.

Lastly putting a splash guard on the panel - this will protect the exposed face of the electrical panel from a majority of the water exposure that is common with its location...
 

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Jody-
"Theory 2: Just flipping the breaker is enough to allow the breakers to move and allow the exposed bits of the connectors to come in contact."

A long time ago, an electrician taught me that when you connect wires up to a lightswitch, you want to waste [sic] time and money by then wrapping electrical tape all the way around the switch, covering all the connections that you've just screwed down.

As he explained to me, this guarantees that IF something gets loose, it does no damage; IF someone pokes around in there, they can't contact live conductors, and IF the code inspector shows up, he sees that someone wasn't taking any shortcuts and he signs off faster.

Of course we don't worry about "code" much on boats, but wasting the extra 50c worth of tape to make sure that things can't get loose and make sparks, has always sounded like a good investment to me. On boat wiring these days, I'm also likely to paint a couple of layers of "liquid lectric" vinyl over connections. That insulates, secures, and can be popped off with a fingernail if I ever have to get back into something.
 

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Jody-
"Theory 2: Just flipping the breaker is enough to allow the breakers to move and allow the exposed bits of the connectors to come in contact."

A long time ago, an electrician taught me that when you connect wires up to a lightswitch, you want to waste [sic] time and money by then wrapping electrical tape all the way around the switch, covering all the connections that you've just screwed down.
No, not suggesting covering the circuit breaker with electrical tape, just the crimped connection - covering the heat shrink. The "exposed connectors" should probably read exposed portion of the crimped connection caused by the tool / die exposing the connector thru the plastic connector coating...
 

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Super Fuzzy Moderator
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17,137 Posts
Scott - Still Raining.

Some time back I was discussing with Scott how to heat the Womboat in winter. It doesn't get really cold down here so in a 34'er a proper boat heater is simply overkill.

We had been using an oil lantern which did the job but I could not find one in Australia that was anything other than complete junk.

Not only does Scott go out and find one, he packs it up and mails it to me refusing to accept anything for it. A good man, and I consider him a true friend. Mind you, he may be simple minded. He offered to lend me his boat if we wanted to go for a cruise in the PNW. No sane person would do that !!

ps - Scott....now I want Jody's socket and spanner set.......:eek: , but seriously Jody, that is a mean looking set of tools. One thing about America that is beyond argument, you guys have the most amazing array of hardware.

pps - Charlie, good to see the progress you are making. Great pics. That dinghy on the deck of the boat next to Joy !! Wow. Nice one.
 

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On the hard
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3,502 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Ah, Fuzzy wants MY toolset? I can get ya one from Costco for $100 USD plus shipping. Shipping of 25 kilos to Australia would be as much as the tools I suspect. Do an online search for Crescent Tools, the Mfg.. They may be available.
 

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Super Fuzzy Moderator
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Ah, Fuzzy wants MY toolset? I can get ya one from Costco for $100 USD plus shipping. Shipping of 25 kilos to Australia would be as much as the tools I suspect. Do an online search for Crescent Tools, the Mfg.. They may be available.
Thanks for that Charlie, I'll go see the website.

You are right about the shipping costs. Mind you they would still probably end up cheaper than anything comparable in Australia, though I did find a local tool merchant recently and must check out their range and pricing.

Sorry for giving your kit to Jody. The old putting of two and two together and ending up with five. :)
 
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