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Discussion Starter #1
HELP - how do you tear apart/remove an old bronze quadrant???

After being pinned down in a harbor (a pretty sweet harbor I must admit) for 10 years with a rotted keel mounted rudder, gudgeon and pintle assemblies that have more iron oxide than steel content and no haul-out facility, after diving 20 times to try to repair 'the one I have' and finding that road a nightmare, I am moving in the direction I have seen on other sailboats - stern mounted, flip-up rudder I can attach directly to a wind-vane and if it snags anything enroute, it kicks up and dumps the line, log or sandbar. The transom assembly is done and 100 times more solid than the old deadwood version, offering more leverage, but a larger turning radius - I'll live and the wheel will be lighter so I'll smile about it too.

Meanwhile the gorgeous quadrant on the rotted rudder continues to stick up through the floor of the aft cabin - luckily the rudder tube (reasonably intact steel pipe with threads) is well above the water line, so once removed I can either cap it off or use it for a manifold. That said REMOVING the quadrant has been a bit of a bear and any hints or help would be appreciated as it doesn't seem to want to 'let go' after removing all the bolts.

Here's what I've done:

a) removed the bolts that hold the top half of the outer body to the lower half which is bolted to the hull. The top half has a large disc in it that is 'rusted tight' to the old rudder post (1 inch sold steel rod), and I am not sure, but it looks like that 'disc' is part of the quadrant gear as well (or the upper part of a sandwiched disc set). With a crowbarI can slightly pry (.5MM) the upper body from the lower body, but it settles back quickly. I am assuming the weight of the old rudder (a water logged 3x5 slab) is pulling everything DOWN.

b) removed the master link (chain drive) eliminating tension and dropped the chain from the wheel off the 8 foot shaft that drives the quadrant worm gear, as well as remove all bolts holding the shaft bearings to various wood beams. I also removed a small/tiny locking bolt/pin (allen-wrench) that held that shaft to the quadrant's worm gear. I had hoped that by removing the tiny allen bolt it would 'break free' from the quadrant drive shaft on the worm gear, leaving only the quadrant arc and upper/lower body but it appears seized onto the quadrant drive and somehow locked within the sandwich created by the upper/lower body. This means the rotating shaft should (theory) possibly come forward off that worm gear drive bolt, but appears also rusted tight.

(I have sprayed plenty of WD-40 on everything as I go and the bronze housing bolts came off like a dream after 35 years - angels do smile on us now and then).

c) I have tried to crowbar the body up and down (.5MM above) and am going to rig a 2-ton come-along to literally LIFT the rudder post up 3 inches which will hopefully allow me to work the top housing body back and forth or look inside between the top/bottom housing to see if I can spot a lock bolt/key/pin that will allow the rudder post to 'drop' out of the bottom of the quadrant. While its currently a solid steel rusted rod at the moment, that looks well seated/frozen within that disc, I am hoping the weight of the rudder vs. the come-along tension will break that grip and let the rudder post start to move, breaking 4 decades of rust. A torch my be helpful as some of my friends have said to break anything rusted for 35 years is a lot easier after applying substantial heat to the equation.

d) I can supply digital photos to help identify QUADRANT TYPE etc., easily (and post them on the web etc.), and since I often develop online classes for kids, can even make a class of this (if anyone's interested), but any help from anyone who has stripped, assembled a quadrant would be greatly appreciated. I am not sure about any lock bolts or other housing tricks and am not sure how the 'disc' or arc portion has attached to the rudder post/shaft. Perhaps rotating the arc far enough will reveal bolts that can be loosened to un-clamp the quadrant from the rudder post.

The objective: remove, resize disc and put on rear rudder post which is done, ready to go, then move the bearings and shaft with sprockets to the new wheel assembly I have also already completed. This move actually frees up a substantial amount of room in my tiny cockpit as well after I rip out the bulkhead mounted plywood pedestal the original wheel shaft/bearings were/are mounted to.

Any takers want to help with what should be a simple job? Pizza is on me after I'm done and yes - I can probably order it in your city and have it delivered.

Thanks.
 

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A bit tough to visualize with just the text description, so please post pix and I'll try to be more helpful.

That said, I know from working on my quadrant, that the rudder is typically held in place by a pin that pressed right through the rudder post, inside the hull, above the bearing/seal. If you can find that and then move the rudder stock, you may see the movement on the quadrant (also the shape of a slice of pizza, oddly enough) that you're looking for as you apply your crow bar.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thank you for the reply

It just got dark and I will go back in there tomorrow with camera and post photos on web.
 

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Telstar 28
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Be aware that you need 10 posts to link to photos hosted elsewhere or post a link. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Photos available online to quadrant

Ok I said I would take some pics of the quadrant I am tearing apart and have uploaded them to

Quadrant assembly

Any help on getting this puppy disassembled would be appreciated.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Old Bronze Quadrant Removal - Help

Ok, I took the photos and uploaded them to the web page in my signature entitled quadrant.
 

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One of None
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uh... hows bout a plasma cutter with lots and lots and lots of fireproof blankets to protect evething but the metal? :eek: I know.. I get carried away in my thinking :rolleyes: dumb idea anyway. Maybe a recip saw and lots of large tooth metal cutting blades would be safer?



Did you say she's been in the H20 for 10 years??? :eek: I shudder to think what the hull condition is. oh dear! I can't imagine doing what your trying with the boat in the water!
 

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STARBOARD!!
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In Photo 6 on the upper left side there appears to be a "knob" or something sticking out of the back side of the disc. Could that be a retaining pin? There must be something locking the shaft onto the disc; and if that is the pin that locks them together it must be removed before the quadrant will lift off of the rudder stock.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
no fireproof blankets required - its Ferro

The one thing I love about Ferro boats is no fire blankets required. You can weld, cut, sledge on deck and it seems to take a lickin and keep on tickin.

The knobs - grease fittings - you turn them in and they squish grease into joints - pretty neat actually.

What I am going to do is put a harness around the bottom of the rudder and try lifting the rudder up, (come alongs on the wrapped line-s) taking the weight and see if the post comes up inside.

If so it will probably have to lift the loosened upper casing. When it does that I may be able to spot a locking bolt or clamp bolts inside the upper casing.

As for 10 years in h2o, except for loss of speed I would keep it this way if I could. The otters and some pretty large fish have used it for a smorgesbord and my friend with a boat on sea veggies says everything on there is edible which means I could literally sail the world and except for a few fish caught every week or two, never have to carry a single scrap of food. I have had plenty of fresh nori (what they make sushi wrapper from) and a few other items as a test and it really is like a floating farm. (readers stop shuddering).
 

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STARBOARD!!
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OK looking at those pictures a second time makes much more sense now. The upper piece you are trying to remove may have an interference fit between the bearing and the shaft. I can't see clearly but another possibility is that the shaft is tack welded to the bearing (in the side view it looks like there may be a couple of tack welds hidden beneath rust).

Are you going to drop the rudder once the quadrant is off? If so; you could cut the rudder post between the quadrant and the rudder tube with a sawzall and then remove the quadrant with the upper part of the post still attached and take it to a machine shop for final disassembly.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Got it

I didn't read your post but you hit the nail on the head - except for the drop the rudder part - it had to go to the trash not to the bottom.

The sawz-all was replaced by a 7 inch cutting wheel - I lashed the upper rudder post and hauled it about a foot out of the rudder log, cut, rotate, cut, rotate (1 3/8 diameter) and then once cut, bang, bang, bang and PLOP - out she went - hauled her to the surface, dumper her in the dink and hauled her away.

I've drilled the new holes for mounting the quadrant in a new place and need to go to the shop to have it slipped out of the quad if I want to use the same shaft in a 90 degree position to drive the tiller arm on the new rudder already installed.

Otherwise, I am home free.
 

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How about posting some pictures of your hull. I'd like to see what a movable sea-farm looks like.
 
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