SailNet Community banner

1 - 20 of 46 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
454 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I'm working on replacing all of the hoses for my head. Of course I had to remove the Raritan PH head in the process. There is a 2" thick piece of mahogany on which the Raritan sits. Upon removing that I discovered the holes for the old head. I'm guessing from the footprint that it might have been a Groco K-H (the Groco is higher than the Raritan as well, which would explain the 2" wood pad).

Does anyone know if mid-90s PSC34s had a Groco? Any reason that I would want to go back to the Groco? It certainly seems more robust than the Raritan.

While I'm posting, any thing else that I should keep in mind as I change out all the hose? I'm cleaning all the hull and probably going to repaint while all the hose is out of the way. I'm replacing with the Raritan Sani/flex hose. Also going to clean the holding tank (my guess is it hasn't been done in a long time, if ever).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
520 Posts
I'm working on replacing all of the hoses for my head. Of course I had to remove the Raritan PH head in the process. There is a 2" thick piece of mahogany on which the Raritan sits. Upon removing that I discovered the holes for the old head. I'm guessing from the footprint that it might have been a Groco K-H (the Groco is higher than the Raritan as well, which would explain the 2" wood pad).

Does anyone know if mid-90s PSC34s had a Groco? Any reason that I would want to go back to the Groco? It certainly seems more robust than the Raritan.

While I'm posting, any thing else that I should keep in mind as I change out all the hose? I'm cleaning all the hull and probably going to repaint while all the hose is out of the way. I'm replacing with the Raritan Sani/flex hose. Also going to clean the holding tank (my guess is it hasn't been done in a long time, if ever).
Yup, mine has a Groco Model K. I haven't had any problems with it, so far, although I did replace the flapper valve last year. I've been considering replacing all the sanitation hose also, but it's not that high on my list of priorities yet. Given how stiff the original Trident hose is, it cannot be an easy job. Let us know how it goes.

Joost
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
454 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Yup, mine has a Groco Model K. I haven't had any problems with it, so far, although I did replace the flapper valve last year. I've been considering replacing all the sanitation hose also, but it's not that high on my list of priorities yet. Given how stiff the original Trident hose is, it cannot be an easy job. Let us know how it goes.

Joost
Thank you Joost. After posting I did some additional digging and research. I'm leaning heavily toward switching back to a Groco. The Raritan isn't a bad piece of equipment, but it's not built like the Groco.

I'll let you know how the change goes. I just have the clean-out hose and two shorter pieces left to remove. So far not too bad, especially since I could get the Sawzall in to cut the longer pieces in half. That made it much easier to remove.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
52 Posts
Bill, we have a Groco on our 1987 PSC 34 and it works well. A few years ago I replaced the hoses to and from the holding tank, replaced the plywood lid on the holding tank, and cleaned it out. I'm glad that's over! Anyway, the worst part of the job was replacing the hoses. I had a terrible time positioning myself to be able to attach them to the holding tank. Good luck.
Steve
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
454 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Bill, we have a Groco on our 1987 PSC 34 and it works well. A few years ago I replaced the hoses to and from the holding tank, replaced the plywood lid on the holding tank, and cleaned it out. I'm glad that's over! Anyway, the worst part of the job was replacing the hoses. I had a terrible time positioning myself to be able to attach them to the holding tank. Good luck.
Steve
Thanks for the info and encouragement. I know that it isn't going to be fun, but I'd rather be doing it in the cool of early spring in Cleveland than on an extended voyage. It's so tight, both under the sink cabinet and in the space immediately inboard of the holding tank, where the pump is. I've heard that the Raritan Sani-flex and a good heat gun will help.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
454 Posts
Discussion Starter #7

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,346 Posts
OP mentioned cleaning out the holding tank . OP does your tank have a full indicator ? I tried to find the one we have but no luck . Ours is a simple set up that consists of a plate that holds a shaft that a float goes up and down on and makes a 12V connection and turns on a light . Anyhow to mount this thing you hole saw a hole and screw the thing down with a nice gasket , in the past it also doubles as a access port so I can see in there and I can get a hose nozzle to blast the thing clean .
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
454 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
OP mentioned cleaning out the holding tank . OP does your tank have a full indicator ? I tried to find the one we have but no luck . Ours is a simple set up that consists of a plate that holds a shaft that a float goes up and down on and makes a 12V connection and turns on a light . Anyhow to mount this thing you hole saw a hole and screw the thing down with a nice gasket , in the past it also doubles as a access port so I can see in there and I can get a hose nozzle to blast the thing clean .
To be honest, I haven't paid much attention to it yet. I do know that the first season that I owned the boat, I managed to pressurize the holding tank to the extent that when I opened the clean out on deck, had I not opened it slowly and the pressure was relieved, I would have been covered in $hit. :) A full gauge might have helped me to avoid that mistake. I'll check once I get to that point.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
180 Posts
Yup, mine has a Groco Model K. I haven't had any problems with it, so far, although I did replace the flapper valve last year. I've been considering replacing all the sanitation hose also, but it's not that high on my list of priorities yet. Given how stiff the original Trident hose is, it cannot be an easy job. Let us know how it goes.



Joost


I just cut the hose with a dremal cutting blade in the middle and then then carefully cut lengthwise at the end so so it would easily break loose. The original hoses had some blue sealant that prevented just being able to twist it off. Newer hose is much easier to work with. Pick a breezy day so you’ll have some fresh air flowing through the cabin.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
454 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
I just cut the hose with a dremal cutting blade in the middle and then then carefully cut lengthwise at the end so so it would easily break loose. The original hoses had some blue sealant that prevented just being able to twist it off. Newer hose is much easier to work with. Pick a breezy day so you’ll have some fresh air flowing through the cabin.
Thanks, I'll bring my Dremel tool tomorrow. I've been using a sawzall and multi-tool, but a Dremel is a good idea too. Especially in the really tight places for those short pieces stuck on a barbed fitting.
 

·
deisher6
Joined
·
74 Posts
I removed the Groco head, hoses, pump, and all fittings except the trough hulls and replaced them with a composting head. I think that the PO had an incident in the head, took about 6 months for the smells to go away. Made a new lid for the holding tank. After cleaning it out I sprayed it with Kilz sealer several times. Again the smell lingered. Unfortunately I did the work in the summer, Winter / Spring in Cleveland is a good time.

regards charlie
PSC 34
Windrunner
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
454 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
I removed the Groco head, hoses, pump, and all fittings except the trough hulls and replaced them with a composting head. I think that the PO had an incident in the head, took about 6 months for the smells to go away. Made a new lid for the holding tank. After cleaning it out I sprayed it with Kilz sealer several times. Again the smell lingered. Unfortunately I did the work in the summer, Winter / Spring in Cleveland is a good time.

regards charlie
PSC 34
Windrunner
Thank you Charlie. I was considering using an epoxy barrier coat to try and block out any odor that had permeated the tank itself, but I've used Kilz in houses and it usually works. Wow, maybe the PO did have a serious incident in the head.

I took all the teak doors off to varnish them at home. Driving them home, and even with them in the garage, 'that smell' was there. Everything gets permeated with the odor. That reminds me that I need to take some Odoban with me today when I go to the boat to finish removing the last couple of hoses. I'll wipe down everything with Odoban, that kills all kinds of nasties. When I helped out at the local Humane Society we'd use Odoban to clean the kennels. That stuff does a great job.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,346 Posts
To be honest, I haven't paid much attention to it yet. I do know that the first season that I owned the boat, I managed to pressurize the holding tank to the extent that when I opened the clean out on deck, had I not opened it slowly and the pressure was relieved, I would have been covered in $hit. :) A full gauge might have helped me to avoid that mistake. I'll check once I get to that point.
I found it .

https://www.westmarine.com/buy/sealand--tankwatch-holding-tank-alert-system--259366?recordNum=3
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
454 Posts
Discussion Starter #15

·
Registered
Joined
·
454 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
I've gotten all the old hoses off and have started to clean and prep the space for new paint.

I've got two questions. I've looked at the lid of the holding tank and it is some type of plex or plastic (similar to the lids used on the water tanks of a PSC, of this vintage). There are several dozen screws and the lid does not leak. I'm thinking that it might be smart to simply leave it alone, rather than open it up and try to clean it out. An alternative is to cut a hole and put in an inspection port, which would allow me to do some cleaning and if I made it a clear inspection port, I could possible see when it's full.

Second, the attached drawing is from the PSC34 manual and shows the plumbing for the head. The Y after the vented loop has no valve on it. To divert from the holding tank to overboard, one closes the valve on the holding tank and opens the valve near the seacock. The hose that runs to the seacock is a run of about 5 foot or more. It seems like that would always have sewage in it when using the holding tank, and could quickly permeate the hose (even though the Raritan hose has a 5 year no permeation guarantee). Would it make sense to replace the Y with a Y-valve?
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
520 Posts
Bill,

My setup is the same as yours. I've often wondered why Pacific Seacraft did it this way as it certainly isn't ideal for permeation. I guess using the Trident hose helps. When I replace the hoses, I will probably put in a y-valve.

Regarding the tank, there is a procedure for sealing the lid that has appeared on this forum a few times. My impression is that it is not so easy to get a good durable seal. So unless the holding tank is leaking, I would avoid taking off the lid. I wonder if it is possible to clean out the tank by half filling it with water and some special detergent, and then going for a sail in boisterous conditions?

Joost
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
454 Posts
Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
My 2005 31 has a Y-valve. I would be reluctant to add a view port, seems like it’s just another place for leaks and odors to escape.
Thank you teejay. Maybe PS realized their oversight by the time they built your boat. Mine is a 1994 vintage. Yes, I agree, an inspection/view port would be a risk. I'm leaning against it.

Bill,

My setup is the same as yours. I've often wondered why Pacific Seacraft did it this way as it certainly isn't ideal for permeation. I guess using the Trident hose helps. When I replace the hoses, I will probably put in a y-valve.

Regarding the tank, there is a procedure for sealing the lid that has appeared on this forum a few times. My impression is that it is not so easy to get a good durable seal. So unless the holding tank is leaking, I would avoid taking off the lid. I wonder if it is possible to clean out the tank by half filling it with water and some special detergent, and then going for a sail in boisterous conditions?

Joost
Thank you Joost. I'm glad to hear that I'm not the only one wondering about why they did the plumbing without cutting off the possibility of allowing sewage to sit in the hose. One way of preventing that is to regularly purge that line, but then it would presumably just fill up again on the next flush.

The only thing I was wondering about was that since the design of that actual joining of three hoses is with a T-coupling (not a Y as implied in the drawing), and the line to the overboard discharge comes off the side of the T-fitting, maybe they felt that the flush would predominantly go to the holding take hose (which is fitted to the bottom of the T-fitting). See photo.

I agree with you on the resealing of the tank lid. I cleaned out the aft water tank and removed the lid to do so. It was a pain to get a good seal on it, my first attempt had a leak. With fresh water that's just an annoyance, but with holding tank effluent, quite another story. I like your idea of filling it with water and then going for a sail. Plenty of boisterous days out on Lake Erie.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
667 Posts
We are pretty close to the West Marine recommended system.

Everything always goes into the holding tank. We do have a vented loop between the head and holding tank as the lip of the toilet bowl is lower than the top of the holding tank. We have a Henderson diaphragm pump for discharging the holding tank as I consider it more reliable than an electric pump. The through hull is kept shut and padlocked inside the USA. Outside the USA the system allows us to choose the time and place of making an overboard discharge.

The level in the tank is monitored with a SCAD/Ferriello gauge. We have both the external tape sensor and the PVC internal pipe sensor. We are currently using the pipe sensor. We have a 4" Beckson clear deck plate in the tank top below which hangs a fishing bobber. If I can see the bobber floating, the tank is full.

The tank is full.

Bill Murdoch
1988 PSC 34
Irish Eyes
 
1 - 20 of 46 Posts
Top