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Transplanted Yankee
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
What sort of paint should I use inside the hull, down below in the main cabin on an old wooden boat that has been prepped with Smith's Clear Penetrating Epoxy Sealer?
 

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Probably any good paint would stick well over that, but you might want to check with Smith's and the paint company before using any particular product, in case either of them has had issues.

I would expect any good white enamel paint to do, followed in price and durability by bilge paint, urethane paint, and epoxy paint. For non-commercial use, plain white enamel paint probably will do. And since it is a boat, you might add a packet of mildew preventive into it as well. (Again, check with both makers for compatibility issues.)
 

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Probably any good paint would stick well over that, but you might want to check with Smith's and the paint company before using any particular product, in case either of them has had issues.

I would expect any good white enamel paint to do, followed in price and durability by bilge paint, urethane paint, and epoxy paint. For non-commercial use, plain white enamel paint probably will do. And since it is a boat, you might add a packet of mildew preventive into it as well. (Again, check with both makers for compatibility issues.)

I'd go further and say any interior semigloss, though I would opt for a better brand (Bejamin Moore for ex.).

I did a cabin on one boat, and the lockers in another. There's not much point in going with a topsides paint unless you do the glass finish surface prep that goes with it.
 

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Benjamin Moore has become such a coveted name, that they've reported problems with painters re-using empty cans, filling them with other products, and claiming they are using Benj.M. paint on jobs when they aren't. Go figure, paint is so expensive it is worth "counterfeiting" now.
 

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Transplanted Yankee
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks, guys for the good advice. I have called Smith's in California, the firm that makes the clear penetrating epoxy sealer. They say that the CPES itself is a primer, so there is no need to further prime the surface, nor is there a need to scuff it up for tooth. Any paint will work, but the best is probably a two-part epoxy paint. I think that I may go get some Benjamin Moore enamel at Home Depot. Any objections?
 

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Two part epoxy paints probably are the most durable, but for most of us in non-commercial applications, expensive overkill. Go to a paint store that carries bottom paint, that way everything else will look outright cheap.<G>
 

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Once known as Hartley18
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Thanks, guys for the good advice. I have called Smith's in California, the firm that makes the clear penetrating epoxy sealer. They say that the CPES itself is a primer, so there is no need to further prime the surface, nor is there a need to scuff it up for tooth. Any paint will work, but the best is probably a two-part epoxy paint. I think that I may go get some Benjamin Moore enamel at Home Depot. Any objections?
You may not need a primer, but you still need an undercoat.

HS is correct, but the other thing to keep in mind is that timber hulls expand and contract, so ideally you need a top-coat that's flexible and won't crack away at the seams.

If you want to do it right, I'd suggest a two-pack undercoat over your CPES in the interior colour you choose, followed by two coats of a one-pack flexible mildew-resistant topcoat (like the Valspar Exterior that Tommays suggested) for the final coats. You could use a regular undercoat on the CPES just fine for years (and many people do) but keep in mind it may not adhere as well in some places if the surface get damp for long periods.

An extra tip: For the bilge area (below floorboards) and anywhere else relatively inaccessible like around the engine bay that's likely to get grime-covered, at the suggestion of a boatbuilder for some years now I've been using International Primocon - it's an antifouling primer, but is incredibly flexible and everything-resistant and does not require topcoating inside.
 

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Transplanted Yankee
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Thanks, Classic30. You are probably right about an undercoat, for the reason of flexing timbers, that you give, and because the wood is now so dark that the white finish that I hope for will probably take two coats or white paint to achieve. Can you suggest a flexible two-pack undercoat? Manufacturer? Type of paint? Also, is Valspar the best enamel to use as a top coat? I have heard that Benjamin Moore makes some very good paint. Opinions?
 

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Once known as Hartley18
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Thanks, Classic30. You are probably right about an undercoat, for the reason of flexing timbers, that you give, and because the wood is now so dark that the white finish that I hope for will probably take two coats or white paint to achieve. Can you suggest a flexible two-pack undercoat? Manufacturer? Type of paint? Also, is Valspar the best enamel to use as a top coat? I have heard that Benjamin Moore makes some very good paint. Opinions?
Glad to help, shisaisama :)

Not being in your country I know nothing of Benjamin Moore but have heard good things about Valspar.

I doubt you'll find a flexible two-pack undercoat. You have two options:
1. Something like International Perfection Undercoat which is an ordinary two-pack epoxy that will adhere to your CPES. Smiths may also have an undercoat range you could use that is a close colour-match with your chosen topcoat.
2. If using Valspar Exterior (or similar latex or acrylic exterior enamel) use their recommended (one-pack) undercoat.

Which you choose comes down to money and time, really, with option 1 being the more durable of the two since there'll be a better bond between the CPES and the undercoat. Yes, you'll need at least one undercoat (maybe two if it's really dark), followed by two top-coats for the surface you describe.
 

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Transplanted Yankee
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Classic30,

Thanks for the additional help. I hope that I don't have to give the ceiling (inside of topsides) the four coats that you recommend. The 4" planks are separated by 1.5" frames on six-inch centers, and all are riveted to 3" x 3" stringers on 18" centers. Needless to say, there are lots of nooks and crannies to get at! And now I am only dealing with the seven-foot main cabin on a 36' boat!

Shisaisama
 

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Transplanted Yankee
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
SVTatia,

Thanks for the comment. I have seen the Rust-Oleum marine paint at Lowes. Tell me: How long has it been since you used it down below?

Shisaisama
 

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Once known as Hartley18
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Classic30,

Thanks for the additional help. I hope that I don't have to give the ceiling (inside of topsides) the four coats that you recommend. The 4" planks are separated by 1.5" frames on six-inch centers, and all are riveted to 3" x 3" stringers on 18" centers. Needless to say, there are lots of nooks and crannies to get at! And now I am only dealing with the seven-foot main cabin on a 36' boat!

Shisaisama
Shisaisama, if that's what you're up against, I would suggest going with the two-pack undercoat option. If the colour is close (presumably "white" - whatever that is) you might get lucky and only need one top-coat of your selected one-pack enamel finish.

To save some money and effort, you could use a one-pack oil-based undercoat instead, but you might need more than one coat of the undercoat, because it's 'softer' paint than the epoxy.

Whatever system you choose, I'd suggest doing a test on an easy-to-get-to part of the cabin first - so that you know in advance how many coats you'll need to get the look you want. As long as the undercoats are oil- or epoxy-based, you'll be able to paint over them with a one-pack enamel.
 

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SVTatia,

Thanks for the comment. I have seen the Rust-Oleum marine paint at Lowes. Tell me: How long has it been since you used it down below?

Shisaisama
Not very long, I painted last year, so not sure how it will stand up. But it is an exterior paint with UV blocks, which is not even needed down below, so I'm hoping it will last a few years and stay white.
 

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Transplanted Yankee
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
All of this good advice is helping me to make a choice of paints.

Now, I have a REAL doozy of a problem for you all. Down deep in the wine-glass shaped bilge of my boat are buried two copper or bronze water tanks. They are fastened there I don't know how, but very well fastened indeed. Although I would expect to find some surface rot down there, I am loath to pull the tanks out to inspect and treat the planks around them. Smith's CPES is so expensive (almost $100 per two-quart kit) that I hesitate to just pour it down the planks into the bilge hoping that it soaks in, as though I were pouring money into the boat -- an apt analogy, indeed!

What to do?!
 

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Once known as Hartley18
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Now, I have a REAL doozy of a problem for you all. Down deep in the wine-glass shaped bilge of my boat are buried two copper or bronze water tanks. They are fastened there I don't know how, but very well fastened indeed. Although I would expect to find some surface rot down there, I am loath to pull the tanks out to inspect and treat the planks around them. Smith's CPES is so expensive (almost $100 per two-quart kit) that I hesitate to just pour it down the planks into the bilge hoping that it soaks in, as though I were pouring money into the boat -- an apt analogy, indeed!

What to do?!
I think you already know the answer to that. To find out what is really going on down there, you're going to have to get them out... and then use a hundred bucks worth of CPES to either (1) help fix any problems or (2) make sure they can't happen in future. :rolleyes:

Welcome to the wonderful world of (old) wooden boats! :)


Edit: At least you discovered CPES now. Many wooden-boat-owners only find out about this miracle product long after being driven out of house and boat by The Dreaded Rot.
 

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Transplanted Yankee
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Drat, Classic30 ! Isn't there another way to skin this cat? Perhaps a skinny 4" roller cover soaked in CPES on the end of a sprung roller a foot and a half long slipped gingerly over the convex surface of the bilge? There is a bit of a gap between tanks and sump, you know......
 

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Once known as Hartley18
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Drat, Classic30 ! Isn't there another way to skin this cat? Perhaps a skinny 4" roller cover soaked in CPES on the end of a sprung roller a foot and a half long slipped gingerly over the convex surface of the bilge? There is a bit of a gap between tanks and sump, you know......
To work properly, CPES needs a reasonably rubbish-free substrate to penetrate into. It isn't hard to guess what else may have penetrated into the timber down there already and what your nice clean roller will look like once you poke it under there!! :eek:

To be perfectly honest, the bilge is not a great place for tanks of any kind in a wooden boat since it's what you can't see that will sink you. They should never have been put in there in the first place (under the salon or cockpit seats is more typical) so you really should get them out of there...

..and once cleaned and tidied up, a coat or two of CPES followed by a coat of BilgeKote (or Primocon if, like here, Bilgekote isn't available in your area) will have your bilges looking like new.

Pics would help. Post some when you can. :)
 

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Transplanted Yankee
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Yes, I should post some pictures, but it is a rain night here and I am away from the boat.

Solveig is an old Australian racer built by the Halvorsen yard in Sydney, so I naturally assumed that the tanks were placed where they needed to be...... And, when one thinks of how the center of gravity may be affected by positioning full tanks at a higher point in the boat, well, one is liable to trust the original design brief.

Having said that, however, you are probably right, and with wooden boats' penchant for committing a slow suicide in the tropics, I had better get the damned things out of there and inspect the havoc that the years have witnessed, as much as I would rather just leave well enough alone!
 
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