SailNet Community banner
Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 288 Posts

·
Senior Smart Aleck
Joined
·
2,150 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Today, I smoked by Beneteau 46 thanks to good trimming

Here is a series of three videos showing my Pearson 28 catching up to, passing and turning around a Beneteau 46 on the Rappahannock River.

Why can't these picnic sailors trim their sails?

They especially seem to have a problem with a broad reach. The sails should be eased to nearly perpendicular to the boat on a broad reach, relying on the sail's life for power, not the wind "pushing on" the sail. Aren't they teaching this in the ASA courses?

Every season, every time I go out, I pass much newer, more expensive boats, that should be much faster than my boat. I bought my boat off Craigslist and I buy sails from eBay, usually for $100 to $200. It just goes to show you, how much you spend has little to do with performance or potential sailing enjoyment.

The winds were fluky, out of the S.E. to S.W., at around 10 knots. I was trimming from close-hauled to reaching, mostly a broad reach during the video scene.
 

·
Wandering Aimlessly
Joined
·
22,036 Posts
If I'm just sailing to be sailing (as opposed to reaching a destination) I often don't worry about "maximizing" my efficiency. Sometimes it's just enough to be moving and the sails not flapping. Other times, I may be trying to get the most out of my trim. Basically, it's just a matter of enjoying myself.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,314 Posts
I managed to beat boat for boat racing a C&C 41 a month or so. eat a Ben 43 a bunch too. both handicap and B4B.

It can be done if the other boat is not as trim moded as you are, both from a sail and crew wt stand point.

Marty
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,266 Posts
Good for you.

You sailed better and didn't over trim. And you had a "real" mainsail and not one of those awful hollow- leeched battenless mains that results when you have the "convenience" of in- mast furling we see on the Bene, and over trimmed to boot. Save me from those goofy mainsails.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,111 Posts
Good for you.

You sailed better and didn't over trim. And you had a "real" mainsail and not one of those awful hollow- leeched battenless mains that results when you have the "convenience" of in- mast furling we see on the Bene, and over trimmed to boot. Save me from those goofy mainsails.
It appears to me he might be dragging one of the stern tubes of his inflatable from time to time, as well...

That's a pretty slick davit/bridle arrangement he's got there, for sure...

:)
 

·
Senior Moment Member
Joined
·
13,300 Posts
Are you certain he wasn't aground? :D

Around here he probably wouldn't have even had the main up. I don't know why they don't just buy powerboats - they'd probably be a lot happier.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jameswilson29

·
Senior Smart Aleck
Joined
·
2,150 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
Are you certain he wasn't aground? :D

Around here he probably wouldn't have even had the main up. I don't know why they don't just buy powerboats - they'd probably be a lot happier.
I agree, many of these "sailors" would probably be happier with powerboats or houseboats, but "sailing" has a cooler image, evoking scenes of freedom and independence.

The following is pure speculation based on personal observation of the owners of this type of 40+ foot sailboats: this "sailor" uses his boat as a second home condo that he sleeps overnight on in about once or twice a month with his wife; he "sails" 2 or 3 times a season (the bottom is fouled with barnacles) to motorsail to a raft up with a club; he has never left the Chesapeake Bay; he bought the boat new after attending a boat show and has been "sailing" for a few years; when he visits the boat he washes it and installs new equipment/electronics and talks about sailing, after a few cocktails; and he dreams about circumnavigating after he retires (which dream will likely be rudely interrupted in reality before starting by heart attack or stroke, unless he really starts the trip, in which case he will be rescued by the Coast Guard or his wife will bail on him after the first rough passage).
:eek:

[This is not intended to denigrate these people whatsoever as human beings - I have met some very nice, pleasant picnic sailors who do not seem to do any kind of serious sailing or even know how to sail, although they own sailboats.]

I want to stress this point: this is not an isolated incident; this happens all the time, usually involving newer boat show type boats - Beneteau, Catalina, Hunter. I can usually handily pass these newer production boats around my size range, the larger ones are a real prize. I guess they really don't care about the mechanics of sailing well. It surprises me that someone who spends $300K on a boat wouldn't really care enough about salilng well to trim the sails and steer. Oh well, to each his own...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,446 Posts
It is fun to over take a larger, newer boat, especially to take the weather gauge maneuver into a broadside position and fantasize about giving him a 16 gun salute and then sail on booty in hand. However nobody beat anybody until they lined up at a starting line and out sailed them to the finish line, unless of course your going for the last bouy in the mooring field. Then we have a winner.
John
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
17,467 Posts
It is fun to over take a larger, newer boat, especially to take the weather gauge maneuver into a broadside position and fantasize about giving him a 16 gun salute and then sail on booty in hand. However nobody beat anybody until they lined up at a starting line and out sailed them to the finish line, unless of course your going for the last bouy in the mooring field. Then we have a winner.
John
+1. I think you both have to know you're racing for it count for anything.

Several years ago in my C27, I "beat" a Beneteau First 35 back across the lake to the marina we were both in. I wasn't as fast as him but I could point higher and was able to turn the corner around the islands before he could. I was pretty proud of it, but assumed he wasn't really racing. However, back at the marina we crossed paths and he congratulated me for those few extra degrees and the win. That made me feel even better.

James - get out there a race a "real sailor" (since you like to call guys like this "picnic sailors") that knows you're racing - him in his Bene 46 and you in your Pearson 28. Beat him fair and square and then you can come back and brag. You'll be a "real racer" - not an undercover "picnic racer". I'm just not that impressed with this one honestly.

Just sayin'.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Looks like a great day James. Your vids inspire me to get the most from my P28. Way at the front end of the curve. But that means there is a lot more fun to be had. Our marina is starting to haul out now so our season is wrapping up. sigh...
 

·
Senior Moment Member
Joined
·
13,300 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,554 Posts
I agree, many of these "sailors" would probably be happier with powerboats or houseboats, but "sailing" has a cooler image, evoking scenes of freedom and independence.

The following is pure speculation based on personal observation of the owners of this type of 40+ foot sailboats: this "sailor" uses his boat as a second home condo that he sleeps overnight on in about once or twice a month with his wife; he "sails" 2 or 3 times a season (the bottom is fouled with barnacles) to motorsail to a raft up with a club; he has never left the Chesapeake Bay; he bought the boat new after attending a boat show and has been "sailing" for a few years; when he visits the boat he washes it and installs new equipment/electronics and talks about sailing, after a few cocktails; and he dreams about circumnavigating after he retires (which dream will likely be rudely interrupted in reality before starting by heart attack or stroke, unless he really starts the trip, in which case he will be rescued by the Coast Guard or his wife will bail on him after the first rough passage).
:eek:

[This is not intended to denigrate these people whatsoever as human beings - I have met some very nice, pleasant picnic sailors who do not seem to do any kind of serious sailing or even know how to sail, although they own sailboats.]

I want to stress this point: this is not an isolated incident; this happens all the time, usually involving newer boat show type boats - Beneteau, Catalina, Hunter. I can usually handily pass these newer production boats around my size range, the larger ones are a real prize. I guess they really don't care about the mechanics of sailing well. It surprises me that someone who spends $300K on a boat wouldn't really care enough about salilng well to trim the sails and steer. Oh well, to each his own...
I dunno, it seems like you're making an awful lot of condescending assumptions about this guy and others like him (cooler image, second home condo, sails 2 or 3 times a season. etc.). I guess I'm just more of a live and let live type.

It seems to me that you are bothered by the fact that others aren't bothered by you. They just want to have a leisurely sail, and don't really care how fast you're going. Nothing wrong with that IMO.
 

·
Senior Smart Aleck
Joined
·
2,150 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I will carry this a bit further for your edification, because this deals with the contemporary decline of real sailing and the philosophy of sailing…

Once in a while, someone will mention “Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance” on this forum. Some of you probably do not understand the connection, so I will explain it to you. I read that book about 30 years ago, and if I remember correctly, the author believes that we are now disconnected and detached from the essence of things, alienated in a sense, in modern life because we no longer really understand how things work and we choose to not try to.

Ironically, the funniest examples of this remain in the field of motorcycles. Today, you can see a group of posers, middle-aged suburbanites, who ride Harleys occasionally on weekends as a hobby, sometimes with a club. Once a year, they trailer their Harleys down to Daytona Beach, put on their leathers, and ride up and down the strip, posing as motorcyclists.

I find this quite amusing and curious. Someone even made a movie comedy about it, called “Wild Hogs”. The people engaging in posing as motorcyclists are probably o.k. individuals – making fun of them is not a criticism of them as people. It is just funny that they have seized upon this image and chosen to make it part of their identity.

You don’t have to be a greasy Hells Angels gang member to be a real motorcyclist. There are some people who use a motorcycle as their daily driver. Those individuals may work on their own bikes and understand how they operate. Their motorcycle use is not necessarily part of their identity, it is just something they choose to do and understand.

To the ignorant and ill-informed, the suburban poser on the Harley in his leathers may appear to be the real motorcyclist, while the kid driving the 20 year-old Honda he maintains himself is the wanna-be. That is because the ignorant and ill-informed judge based on appearances, particularly financial investment, instead of commitment to the essence of any activity.

To draw this analogy a little further, if these two imaginary riders hit a patch of gravel on an off ramp at excessive speed, who will best handle the situation – the fat suburban poser who rides a few hours a month or the kid who spends thousands of hours actually driving and working on his bike every year?

This same phenomena has affected sailing. There are a bunch of posers whose identities are wrapped up in being sailors, which usually revolves around boat ownership and buying stuff. They love boat shows and big new boats and all the gear and equipment. Their actual involvement in sailing and understanding the activity is minimal.

So where and when, if ever, does the proverbial rubber hit the road? The rubber hits the road when these “sailors” believe that sitting and sleeping on a boat for years, going to boat shows, buying stuff, motorsailing to raft ups, and sitting on someone else’s boat during an offshore passage makes them a real sailor. Then, during a rally in the ocean somewhere, they actually have to demonstrate some sailing ability (which they never possessed) with no engine and no electronics and the EPIRB is activated.

Yes, some of you are posers, and it shows because you really don’t know how to sail…
 
1 - 20 of 288 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top