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If you ever feel the need to mod your future Vanguard, check out what this fellow did. The ad is expired, but the pic is still there. He said the rudder mod made a huge difference, so much so that he had to go back and slow down the ratio as it was turning so much faster.
Pearson Vanguard 33 yacht for sale
Also, while JimPendoley, I believe, represents an honest informant on his boat, warts and all, here's a link to another review that, surprise surprise, backs him up. Go here, and click the bullet on the left that says "American Beauty"
The Pearson Vanguard Page
Finally, it amazes me how there's constantly this question of the durability of fiberglass boats. We read about the plastic trash island in the pacific, the plastic bottles that will "never bio-degrade in our landfills," and blah, blah, blah about the evils of plastic. Well, does it bio-degrade or doesn't it? Does it last 100 years in the sun, or doesn't it? Duplicitous, me thinks. And this is said about discarded light plastic items, not a maintained, much heavier glass/plastic boat. Do the bottles last forever, but the boats don't? And spare me the stress analysis comparing a working boat vs a soda bottle. It is what it is. Either plastic boats will last forever, or the plastic bottle invincibility theory is sunk.
 

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Actually that's the 2nd Vanguard I've seen with a spade rudder. I seem to remember reading an article about how towards the end of production they weren't very competitive so they redesigned the rudder to a spade and several came from Pearson this way... It would be interesting to compare the sailing qualities side by side. I bet the spade is quicker/ points better but, somehow though I like the keel hung rudder better. It's better supported and less for things to get tangled on ect.
He said it was basically what you'd expect. Better for maneuvering, backing, racing, and catching stuff, but in some decent waves it'd ventilate and lose tracking, so it depended on your use and prefs.
 

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Jeff H. You were speaking on the construction materials and it appears you said this about the Vanguard?

"Shorter fiber lengths and more brittle resins meant a very flexible and at the same time fatigue prone material."

Short fibers? In woven roving? How do you figure? Short compared to what? I would consider short fibers to be more like the chopper gun products that have been manufactured the last 30 some-odd years to be the champion of short fiber lengths. And what's this about vacuum-bagging? There were companies working without vacuum systems into the 1990's, only relenting to closed systems, not for the end product quality, but for the demands of the EPA, so I'm not seeing how that's relevant either, be it on Vanguards or any other fiberglassed anything made (in an open setting) up til the EPA mandated it be a closed system.
 

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Jeff, you know of no boat company that used vacuum bagging? Don't take that "bag" reference too literally. The SCRIMP process is consistent and repeatable-ideal for one-design boat building." SCRIMP stands for Seemann Composite Resin Infusion Molding Process. It is a closed, vacuum-assisted, resin-transfer molding (VARTM) process used for the fabrication of fiberglass products.
"In the early 1990s TPI was forced to revisit the vacuum system-by the EPA. "At that time we were one of the biggest emitters of VOC's (volatile organic compounds) in the state. We had been trying for some time to develop the vacuum technology, but were still working with the resin outside of the bag. A salesman from Dupont suggested we talk to Bill Seemann who had been successful in developing a closed vacuum system. I took one look and said "you got it!" - Neil Tillotson.
The early 90's. Boat company. EPA. VOC's. You been asleep Jeff?
Note, that's Neil Tollotson, not me, talking. I'm making allowances that the Oracle of Jeff knows that name.
Since 1993, TPI Composites has established itself as a pioneer in the use of the process to build, among other things, buses, wind generator blades, SwimEx hydrotherapy pools and, of course, J/Boats. The advantages of SCRIMP "are huge," explained Jono Billings. "The fiber content of the laminate with the SCRIMP process is 70% by weight to 30% resin, with less than 1% trapped air spaces." In the world of balsa cored fiberglass boat building this is an important factor because by filling those spaces with resin you eliminate the ability for water to travel through the hull.

Is that what you were talking about? Thank you SOOOOO much for "explaining it to me." While I do recall your mentioning of the insurance study in years past, it was, I'm sure, buried in the page and a half reply to some simple question (yes, simple). Sometimes you just have to say yes or no. A dissertation just is not appropriate, and while YOU may have been discussing it, this was not due to me making any statement related to fiber length. Certainly nothing comes to memory. I have disagreed with you on strength issues, but I don't remember ever debating fiber length of woven roving.

However, if 2 ft lengths of woven roving are weak, that is a serious indictment against the (better according to you) current methods of construction that include the use of 1-2 inch fiberglass fragments in the chaos factor chopper gun technique. You cite an ancient study, but have yet to address the chopper gun angle and how it relates (newer is better?). You seriously cite an insurance agency-funded study? No bias there, huh? Riiiiiight.

So they didn't know how to handle fiberglass back in the 60's? Really. You cited the fiberglass strength myth, and I agree. They knew exactly how strong it was. They had to know. Weight being at a premium in aircraft (radomes) demanded they know exactly how strong it needed to be, and what thickness/composition was necessary. You also cite all the money the military invested in the development of fiberglass. All that, and they didn't know how to handle it? Or did they just keep that info Top Secret from the sailboat guys for over 15 years? Just last night I saw bags of folded woven roving in the auto section of Wally's. Wonder if they know they're selling an improperly packaged product that is weakening as it sits there? Agreed, wet out is more of an issue with woven roving. That's why you can't just come in off the street and do it correctly. That would seem to be an argument that when done properly, it's strong, and an unskilled worker is the issue, not the construction. I would think the report you cite would serve to encourage longer strands, not shorter as is currently seen, and better wet out techniques, not abandoning of the technique. Seems to me 2 ft sections are still stronger in old boast than chopper gun assembly in new boats. And if chopper gun construction is so good, a few fractured fibers in woven roving aren't an issue because they're still much longer than chopped strands.....but then, that'd tend to invalidate the insurance study, wouldn't it? Oh, but there's better wet out in chopper gun application, right? There's NO structural strength in chopper gun applications.

I do have a link some may be interested in reviewing.
Fiberglass strength for ocean sailboats
Some will say this fellow has a bias towards building blue water boats as strongly as possible. Yeah, terrible isn't he?

All this because someone wanted to know which of two examples would be more comfortable. I may have missed one along the way, but I'm thinking I'm the only one to actually cast an opinion on that actual question and the cited examples. Yeah, yeah, I'm the pariah because my attitude is so acerbic, but to me, Jeff comes across as condescending. It's an imperfect world.
 

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My mistake on the opinion comment. I let the Vanguard and another thread (a newbie asking about which of two small boats would be better) bleed together. In both, you posted extensive replies. What can I say, after a while it all looks the same to me. I forgot that they were two different threads.
 

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"Big ships fine. Rowboats, long in tooth, make big noise, go nowhere."-Confucius.

Couldn't have said it better myself.
 
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