[Silverton10]

Have a question for you salty folks with experience in both of these boats. I've been on both of them tied up at the dock, read as many articles and reviews as I can find, and have looked at the statics (SA/Disp, PHRF, Disp/length), etc.

For the next few years I'll mostly be day sailing and weekends, including long weekends, but no extended cruising for now. I had been considering a little shorter boats with good performance (eg. Cal 31 with SA/Disp = 17.95).

For the Hunter, I've read that an advantage is flexible sail plan, especially in heavier winds, but that it doesn't point as well and doesn't do as well in light winds. I have been told the PHRF is around 162 for this, SA/Disp is listed on sailboatdata as 16.73 based on listed SA, but 15.29 based on calculated SA).

For the Morgan, I've been told PHRF is around 138, SA/Disp is 16.2. I've been told that it points well, does well in light wind, and performs well.

So, I can go by numbers, but I'd like to know if anyone has experience with both, and how they would compare on things like pointing, light wind, overall speed/performance, and weather helm.

And, another question, and this is probably my main question - with the cutter rig on the Hunter, given that I'll be doing more coastal day/weekend sailing off the North Carolina coast, I would consider removing the staysail stay (attaching it elsewhere temporarliy) and running a 135-145 genoa instead of the yankee. My hope would be that this would help improve the pointing and light wind performance, though maybe hull design might still be limiting. Thoughts?

The reason that I'm asking is that I like the cabin design of the Hunter a little more than the Morgan - better V-berth, better after cabin (rather than just quarter berth on the Morgan).

Ok, for anyone who has read this far - thanks! And, thanks in advance for any input on any of these ideas - performance of these two boats, and performance with sail modification on the Hunter.

Happy sailing!

 

[krisscross]

I like Morgan 382 better as I think it is a better design and better made boat. But I'm not sure you need such a big boat for what you want to do. How many people will sail with you?

 

[Silverton10]

Krisscross,

Thanks for your reply. You're right, the boat is a lot more than I'd need for the most part, and the one I'm looking out is completely decked out for extended cruising, which is also overkill for now. Number of crew will range from me single handing some of the time to up to about 6 at a time. Weekends will probably be about 4. In a few years I'll have more freedom for extended trips. My initial plan was to buy a smaller boat for the interim and then upgrade if needed. But I've found these two in the price range I've been looking for the 30-31', so, they're on the table also.

One reason I'm looking at the larger ones is for cabin head room. I'm 6'2". I was just on a Cal 31, and had to duck a little. I've been on 30' and 31' Pearson, Newport, Yamaha. The first two have better head room, but don't seem to perform quite as well from what I've read and heard, though I know they are good solid boats. I am pretty sure that I'd enjoy the performance aspect, and would be frustrated by a boat that got along OK, but that would be limited. Though I'm fairly new to sailing, I have found that I do enjoy the challenge of trimming and adjusting to maximize speed, performance, etc.

With the headroom, in addition to weekend sails, although I won't do a permanent live aboard now, I will potentially be spending some nights aboard, as the boat will be close to work, and otherwise I have an hour commute.

 

[Silverton10]

I should probably put it as a separate post, but I'm really curious about possible impact/performance improvement of running a genoa on the Hunter with the staysail stay out of the way, instead of running it in cutter (dual headsail sloop for traditionalists) setup with a yankee and staysail.

 

[Faster]

Many so-called cutters are run this way.. The only thing is tacking a Genoa around and past the inner stay can be problematic. In many cases I believe the Genoa is partially furled to avoid some of the drag and hassle of getting the full sail through the foretriangle.

However with some forethought and careful sail selection it can mean you have a decent light-to-moderate sail on the head stay and a good heavy air jib/staysail on the inner. Balanced up with a reefer main the various combos can work well.

 

[Silverton10]

There was an excellent post on SN about tacking a cutter, and I learned a lot. From that, and others, I got the idea of having a removable inner stay. I was thinking of just running it this way most of the time for my day sails, depending on weather etc. If I had a removable staysail stay out of the way, no staysail, just running a genoa (would tack easily with the inner stay out of the way), would this improv pointing on the Hunter, or is pointing limited by other factors (main sail size, hull configuration, etc)? Thanks.

 

[overbored]

the Cherubini has the shrouds mounted at the gunnel so a big genoa would point worse then the two jibs. you won't be able to run the sail inside the life lines and if it is on the outside of the bow pulpit the sail will need to be cut very high to clear. this is not going to be a performance boat no matter how you rig it. the Morgan will sail circles around the hunter. when the wind is light the morgan will go the hunter will seem like you have run ground.

 

[Silverton10]

Thanks overbored - that's exactly that input I was looking for. Greatly appreciated.

 

[krisscross]

Morgan 382 would be a nice boat for a crew of 4 to spend weekends on. If the boat surveys well and the price is right for you, I would say go for it. It is a boat with serious cruising potential that also sails well. And if you decide to cruise for longer periods of time, it can be made quite comfortable, even if you are not too crazy about the internal layout.

 

[eherlihy]

I have NOT been on the Morgan, but have experience with the Cherubini Hunter 37.

For the next few years I'll mostly be day sailing and weekends, including long weekends, but no extended cruising for now. I had been considering a little shorter boats with good performance

I would rule out the Hunter for this kind of use. The Hunter is built like a tank, and it handles like one. With the displacement of 17,800lbs empty, there is a LOT of momentum in this VERY heavy hull. Under power it accelerates at a glacial pace, and once moving, it does not like to stop. You will probably find docking unnecessarily "exciting" on this boat.

Don't get me wrong; the cutter rig is great for cruising, and, as overbored points out, it should point better with the cutter rig than with a genoa. The displacement would make riding out a storm in the North Atlantic, like sitting on a pond. However, from what you state you are looking for, this is not the boat for you.

I suggest that you look at your cruising plans honestly, and select a boat that was designed to meet those needs.

BTW - DeniseO30 has a nice O'day 30 for sale in MD for FAR less than your budget. I believe that you could start with a boat like that. If it lacks for anything in your or your crew's estimation, you could sell it at a loss, and still come out ahead.

Another option would be the relatively common CAL 33. If you insist on an aft cabin, the 1985-1989 Pearson 33-2 would be a great choice.

 

[malyea]

You might do well poking around the Cherubini forum - ask the same questions and see what you learn ...

The Cherubini Hunters - SailboatOwners.com

Also check out the Morgan 38X forum (don't have the link handy - just Google it)

These are two boats that are on my short list for 'under 40' and I personally think if I had to pick one blindfolded, I'd be happy with either design even though they have their differences.

 

[Silverton10]

Thanks for all the input. I have an offer on the Morgan 382, survey pending. Again, probably more boat that I needed right now, but plenty of "room" to grow into it, in all meanings, not just cabin interior specifically.

 

[sailpower]

I notice that it is common to designate certain Hunters as Cherubini. I suppose that takes some of the sting out of the Hunter brand? Are these boats constructed differently than say, a Hunter Legend 37? If so, what are the differences?

 

[eherlihy]

Different layup schedule. VERY very heavy hull.

 

[denverd0n]

I notice that it is common to designate certain Hunters as Cherubini. I suppose that takes some of the sting out of the Hunter brand? Are these boats constructed differently than say, a Hunter Legend 37? If so, what are the differences?

John Cherubini crafted some designs for Hunter in the early 80s. He agreed to design boats for them on the condition that they would follow his specifications to the letter in all regards. This resulted in a period when many of the Hunter models were better designed, and better built, than they had been up to then, or were after that. So, yes, there are significant differences in how the hulls were laid up, how the hull-to-deck joint was executed, how fittings and bulkheads were attached, and even what sort of materials were used in the construction of the interiors.

The Cherubini Hunters of the 1980s are well designed and well built boats that compare favorably with the very best mass-produced boats that have ever been built by any manufacturer.