[jaschrumpf]

Here's a drawing of my plumbing setup in my 1975 Capital Yachts Newport 28. I haven't ever found an actual manual drawing that matches this setup, so I'm thinking a PO must have done some mods to it. I've left out some details to make my (poor) draftsmanship more legible.

The only actual drawing from a Newport owner's manual that comes close has the waste and freshwater inputs reversed from what my boat has. That makes eminently more sense, as you don't pump out waste through your v-berth as my setup currently requires.

The fresh water input connection on my boat is completely unseeable by human eyes. I was able to get my hand on it, but that's all. I don't know how I'd ever replace the fittings if they needed replacing -- maybe by touch.

However, the input line is accessable via an inspection hatch at the forward part of the v-berth. I'm thinking I could cut the line there, reroute the freshwater input over to where the pump-out fitting is (replacing all fittings, natch) and run the current freshwater line over to the holding bladder and make that the pump-out line.

Hopefully the attached drawings will make this clear. Does it seem like a plausible refit?

 

[badsanta]

The raw water intake to the head should not be next to the head Thu hull discharge. They should be on opposite sides of the boat to prevent pumping in the waste you are pumping out. From the Wye valve next to the bladder I would extend the discharge to a deck plate so you can pump out at a pump out station. Do you have room for a roto molded tank?

 

[jaschrumpf]

I suppose one could make the argument that you wouldn't be pumping in water for the head at the same time as you were pumping the holding out the through hull. Makes sense, I guess.

Your other suggestion is what I was trying to explain in my original post: take the fill line for the fresh tank and move it to the holding tank, and move the input for the fresh water to the fitting under the v-berth cusions.

New fittings all around and new lines should make this possible, I'd think.

How does a pump out work, anyway? I've never even seen it done. Does a line have to snake all the way into the holding tank to pump it out, or does a fitting just snug up to the deck fitting and pump it right out through the lines in the boat?

 

[Faster]

.......How does a pump out work, anyway? I've never even seen it done.

A pump out connection (ideally on deck, of course) is connected to a line that extends into the holding tank (rigid better than bladder!) down to near the bottom of the tank. The pumpouts are really just powerful vacuums that literally suck the waste out.

This is where the bladder becomes a problem... the bladder itself could suck up onto the pumpout fitting and block it unless it's properly designed to prevent this.

Why not add another deck fitting and do away with the inside-the-boat fill/pumpout altogether?

 

[jaschrumpf]

It's mainly the difficulty of getting to things. The fresh water fill is inside the anchor well in the bow. I have no access to the underside of the well, so I'd have no way of putting a fitting there. It'd be much easier to modify what's already there, and I don't mind the idea of running a water hose down through the forward hatch to fill that tank.

 

[Deadeye]

Just a thought, but I assume your head is mounted on a pedestal ? Building an integral tank might make good use of the (usually) dead space underneath. The tank size you're talking about wouldn't take much space although you would need to drill the hull for a tank vent.

Just don't build baffles into it

 

[sailingdog]

switching the two deck fills actually does makes sense, but only if you can route the pumpout hose fairly smoothly. Having the deck pumpout fitting closer to the edge of the boat's deck makes it easier to clean up when the inevitable pumpout disaster happens.

Badsanta—Your comment would make sense if he had a direct overboard discharge for the head, but he doesn't.

 

[jaschrumpf]

How easily does the pumpout line route though a y-valve?

Right now the line out from the holding bladder goes to a y-valve which can be switched from pumpout to throughhull. When the y-valve is set to pumpout, can the pumpout line easily get through without hanging up? Is that the normal configuration?

 

[sailingdog]

Y-valves are usually okay.. T-valves can have a problem with the 90˚ bend.

 

[KeelHaulin]

I see a problem with what you propose. Filling the fresh water tank might be difficult without enough height drop from the fill hole to the tank. If the height is too shallow or if the hose is not sloped downhill enough the water will "back-up" in the fill line not allow the tank to fill.

If you switch the hose for the deck fill you will want to replace the deck fill hose over to the sanitary system type of hose. If you can't get to the deck fitting from below deck you might be able to unscrew the deck fill from above and then pull the hose out to disconnect.

 

[jaschrumpf]

This might be a possibility: leave the freshwater fill as is. In the anchor well I could cut another hole next to the freshwater fill and drop a weighted line down where I can pick it up inside the v-berth access panel. The I could use a fish tape to reach over from there to where the holding bladder is.

Once I've done that I could attach a line to a piece of sanitary hose, pull it over to the access plate, attach it to a fitting, pull the fitting up through the hole with the line and then fasten the fitting in place from above.

Voila! A new deck fitting for the pumpout. If there's room I could even double up and pass a vent line up that way along with it.

Have to stick my head back down there this week and have a look-see about this.

 

[badsanta]

Badsanta-Your comment would make sense if he had a direct overboard discharge for the head, but he doesn't.

Yeah, miss read the drawing. My Bad. Like they say advice worth what you paid for it

 

[sailingdog]

Really bad idea IMHO. You don't want the freshwater fill and the head pumpout any where near each other. Many pumpout fitting will spray a bit... and do you really want raw sewage anywhere near your fresh water deck fill????

If you have a leaky o-ring or forget to close it tightly, what do you think the chances of getting sewage into your potable water tank is if they're located next to each other???

This might be a possibility: leave the freshwater fill as is. In the anchor well I could cut another hole next to the freshwater fill and drop a weighted line down where I can pick it up inside the v-berth access panel. The I could use a fish tape to reach over from there to where the holding bladder is.

Once I've done that I could attach a line to a piece of sanitary hose, pull it over to the access plate, attach it to a fitting, pull the fitting up through the hole with the line and then fasten the fitting in place from above.

Voila! A new deck fitting for the pumpout. If there's room I could even double up and pass a vent line up that way along with it.

Have to stick my head back down there this week and have a look-see about this.

 

[jaschrumpf]

I see your point, but the original drawings for the boat have both input and output in the anchor well. And it would be a simple matter to always cover up the freshwater fill with a plastic bag before starting the process, and wipe the area down afterward as well.

I appreciate all the feedback I've gotten on this thread. What I really need to do before anything else is get the existing bladder pumped out as soon as the weather permits. I really didn't start thinking about this until late last season when I pumped some water into the head and flushed it out to make sure everything still worked OK. After that it started cooking a bit, and that's when I noticed that some work needed to be done.

 

[sailingdog]

Jas—

Since you already have the other deck fitting location, why drill another hole, if it isn't necessary or safe.

 

[CaptainForce]

I've heard a few Y-valve comments posted, but I don't see a Y-valve in your diagram; although, I do see the effluent hose from the holding tank diverting to either the pump out or what I assume is a macerator pump at a through-hull discharge. A Y-valve could be placed at this effluent split, but it would have no function. During a pump-out the through-hull is closed and all suction would be applied to the tank. During the use of the macerator the deck plate is closed and all suction is still applied to the tank. I've been running with this pattern for years with a T-fitting without any concerns. Running the pump out to the deck is advisable, but unless the space is critical, there is no need to give up the water fill. What about a pump out down the port deck closer to the tank? Any chance during the refit to exchange the bladder for a firm tank would be advisable. 'take care and joy, Aythya crew

 

[jaschrumpf]

Jas-

Since you already have the other deck fitting location, why drill another hole, if it isn't necessary or safe.

There is no other deck fitting location. There is a pumpout fitting now in the v-berth under the cushions and the freshwater fill in the anchor well. I figure I can either swap the usage of the fittings or drill a new hole so they can both be up in the anchor well.

 

[jaschrumpf]

I've heard a few Y-valve comments posted, but I don't see a Y-valve in your diagram; although, I do see the effluent hose from the holding tank diverting to either the pump out or what I assume is a macerator pump at a through-hull discharge. A Y-valve could be placed at this effluent split, but it would have no function. During a pump-out the through-hull is closed and all suction would be applied to the tank. During the use of the macerator the deck plate is closed and all suction is still applied to the tank. I've been running with this pattern for years with a T-fitting without any concerns. Running the pump out to the deck is advisable, but unless the space is critical, there is no need to give up the water fill. What about a pump out down the port deck closer to the tank? Any chance during the refit to exchange the bladder for a firm tank would be advisable. 'take care and joy, Aythya crew

There is a y-valve in my original drawing, right where the line comes out of the holding bladder. One line from the y goes to the pumpout fitting under the v-berth cushions and the other line goes to the throughhull.

 

[sailingdog]

There is no other deck fitting location. There is a pumpout fitting now in the v-berth under the cushions and the freshwater fill in the anchor well. I figure I can either swap the usage of the fittings or drill a new hole so they can both be up in the anchor well.

Oh, I thought it was in the deck above the v-berth. My bad... I'd still want the two fittings further apart. If the pumpout guy gets confused as to which is which and accidentally attaches the pumpout to the water fill.. that would be bad. I've seen it happen, and it's not pretty.

I've seen accidents like that happen with water and fuel, fuel and pumpout, pumpout and water, etc... Keeping them physically separated by some distance is the cheapest insurance against mistakes. BTW, it takes forever to get rid of the taste of diesel once some gets in the water tank...

 

[KeelHaulin]

There are new fittings which require a winch handle to open the fitting; check to see if your locker will accomodate a winch handle. Then you have two different tools required for filling the water or pumping the head. Or if you went with plastic fittings you could have one colored green and one black or red for the pumpout.

Another concern for the fresh water fill up in the bow is failure of the seal on the deck fill. Since the anchor locker will get water splashing in in rough conditions; it's possible that it could be submerged in salt water now and then; allowing salt water to leak into the tank if the seal ever went bad.