SailNet Community banner

1 - 20 of 44 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
546 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
So ... for various reasons I got my boat out of the water and on the hard in Indiantown. So, it's reasonably safe from any hurricanes. And I got myself a place to stay in Pennsylvania and a job for the summer to replenish the kitty.

The thing I'm considering now, is should I even try to return to the water this fall? With the lockdowns and everything else, does it make sense to continue working until fall of 2021 and return to the ocean then? I mean, what are the chances that it will even be possible to cross over to the Bahamas this fall? Let alone anywhere else?

I know that it's impossible to be sure what the future will be, but I thought it would be an interesting discussion to see what others think.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,867 Posts
We are simply waiting to see. What else can one do? Make plans either way, and be ready for anything.

If the extra money is needed, then the safer bet is to just work for the next year. That might make the following year much easier and more fun.

Mark
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,471 Posts
The bahamas reopens july 1st
Have a friend help look over your boat...be confident, losing that worry
Pick a good window and make the short jump
Once youre there it will be easy day hopping
Steps...get confidence..it all flows from there

Im on my way back to fl now...slowly
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,524 Posts
So ... for various reasons I got my boat out of the water and on the hard in Indiantown. So, it's reasonably safe from any hurricanes. And I got myself a place to stay in Pennsylvania and a job for the summer to replenish the kitty.

The thing I'm considering now, is should I even try to return to the water this fall? With the lockdowns and everything else, does it make sense to continue working until fall of 2021 and return to the ocean then? I mean, what are the chances that it will even be possible to cross over to the Bahamas this fall? Let alone anywhere else?

I know that it's impossible to be sure what the future will be, but I thought it would be an interesting discussion to see what others think.
IMO Winter in the Bahamas is not all that great. Lot's of wind from the cold fronts heading down from the North. Now Springtime is another story. Make the green over the winter then hop on over to the Bahamas in the Spring is my advice. Better weather and better times. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21,764 Posts
That’s the $64,000 question, Bill. The best answer is no one knows.

I predict there will be a Fall outbreak. I’m hopeful the brains have figured out a better way to manage it than shutdown/lockdown, next time. I believe, once the economic and human cost of the shutdowns is fully realized, they think harder next time. Protecting nursing homes, the elderly and vulnerable, mandatory distancing and masks, etc. Pretending that people aren’t starving (no school lunches), suffering domestic abuse, or deferring life extending medical care (as opposed to emergency life saving) can’t go on perpetually. I think there should be very strict rules, short of a shutdown.

That said, I’m not sure the island nations have the kind of sophistication to deal with it. They may be the first to lock down again.

I am not booking a bareboat next winter. Principally, because I can’t assess the ability of the operator to remain in business, with thousands of dollars of deposit money. Wondering what may be open is another.

If I owned a boat down there, I would at least make plans to splash her for a couple of months and play it by ear, even if I didn’t leave FL. Boats don’t like to sit.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,311 Posts
...That said, I’m not sure the island nations have the kind of sophistication to deal with it. They may be the first to lock down again...
I take issue with your characterization of island nations as unsophisticated. The US needs to take a look in the mirror.

It doesn't take much sophistication to wear a mask all the time when away from home and avoid congregating in large crowds. One island nation, Japan, is VERY GOOD at this, as are many other islands. The "red state" unwillingness to require masks and distancing, and to encourage defiance of this common sense approach as some political statement of "asserting our rights", will go down in history as one of the great failures of our country. America's battered reputation in the world as a bunch of careless dupes who don't follow guidelines may be the single biggest impediment to our being allowed into other nations. It's the US that lacks sophistication.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,524 Posts
But it sure beats winter in NY! :)

Mark
Actually last winter was not that bad in NY. But, that did not stop me from implementing my newest retirement plan. Which was to try and get someplace warm every month for the winter. Worked great for December and February when I jumped on cruise ships out of New York. In January it was three weeks in Bonaire. But, things went south (no pun intended) in April when my annual trip to check out the time share in Key West had to be scrapped due to the lockdown. Likewise our annual May sailing charter in the Bahamas was also scrapped. I'm hoping to re-implement the plan when December rolls around this year. Our deposit for the May Bahamas charter has already been applied to next years trip. Meantime I'm pretty much full time on the boat enjoying the northeast sailing season.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,867 Posts
I agree with your point TakeFive, but I didn't read it that way. I interpreted it as many of these smaller nations do not have the healthcare facilities or support apparatuses to handle outbreaks while keeping their countries open to visitors. Hence, they may be the first to lock down again because they have fewer options and tools available.

To your point, pretty much every island nation did better than the US on this initial round. They continue to do better and smarter still. Our politicization of this health issue is literally killing us.

Mark
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,311 Posts
I agree with your point TakeFive, but I didn't read it that way. I interpreted it as many of these smaller nations do not have the healthcare facilities or support apparatuses to handle outbreaks while keeping their countries open to visitors. Hence, they may be the first to lock down again because they have fewer options and tools available.

To your point, pretty much every island nation did better than the US on this initial round. They continue to do better and smarter still. Our politicalization of this health issue is literally killing us.

Mark
Good points. The appropriate word would have been "capacity", not "sophistication".
 
  • Like
Reactions: s_ruffner

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,867 Posts
Actually last winter was not that bad in NY.
Hehe - a justification necessary around late February by everyone living in winter climes! :)

I know what you mean. When I lived in the North, by mid to late winter I was depressed and despondent winter would never end. Yes, I played hockey, skied, snowmobiled, etc, but by late Feb/early March I just couldn't take it anymore.

So I started chartering for 2 weeks during this time. It's amazing how that can reset you and stiffen one up to face the remaining bit of winter back home.

Now we get all despondent if we are caught in an area where there is a week or two of low 60's with colder nights during the deep winter. I could never live in Northern climes again.

Mark
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,524 Posts
It doesn't take much sophistication to wear a mask all the time when away from home and avoid congregating in large crowds. One island nation, Japan, is VERY GOOD at this, as are many other islands. The "red state" unwillingness to require masks and distancing, and to encourage defiance of this common sense approach as some political statement of "asserting our rights", will go down in history as one of the great failures of our country. America's battered reputation in the world as a bunch of careless dupes who don't follow guidelines may be the single biggest impediment to our being allowed into other nations. It's the US that lacks sophistication.
And yet this is what The New England Journal of Medicine posted in May:

"We know that wearing a mask outside health care facilities offers little, if any, protection from infection. Public health authorities define a significant exposure to Covid-19 as face-to-face contact within 6 feet with a patient with symptomatic Covid-19 that is sustained for at least a few minutes (and some say more than 10 minutes or even 30 minutes). The chance of catching Covid-19 from a passing interaction in a public space is therefore minimal. In many cases, the desire for widespread masking is a reflexive reaction to anxiety over the pandemic."

Personally I'll wear a mask if I ever enter a store which is rare these days. My barber required for both of us to wear one which is fine. But, it scares me when I see someone driving with the mask on. I'd like to know they are breathing clean air not a mixture of bodily exhausts when operating a vehicle.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,311 Posts
And yet this is what The New England Journal of Medicine posted in May:

"We know that wearing a mask outside health care facilities offers little, if any, protection from infection. Public health authorities define a significant exposure to Covid-19 as face-to-face contact within 6 feet with a patient with symptomatic Covid-19 that is sustained for at least a few minutes (and some say more than 10 minutes or even 30 minutes). The chance of catching Covid-19 from a passing interaction in a public space is therefore minimal. In many cases, the desire for widespread masking is a reflexive reaction to anxiety over the pandemic."

Personally I'll wear a mask if I ever enter a store which is rare these days. My barber required for both of us to wear one which is fine. But, it scares me when I see someone driving with the mask on. I'd like to know they are breathing clean air not a mixture of bodily exhausts when operating a vehicle.
You are part of the problem. :ROFLMAO:

First, you quoted an opinion piece, posted on April 1. Beyond the hugely ironic date of publication, our knowledge has advanced since then. Presymptomatic transmission is now known to be common, in fact there is evidence that the most contagious period is a few days prior to showing the first symptoms. So we now know that he is factually wrong in that statement.

He is also too vague about his statement about a mask's "protection from infection." Depending on its design, the mask may provide minimal protection to the wearer, but it is well known to significantly reduce the distance of expelled aerosol droplets away from the wearer. So its main benefit is "herd protection", though such altruism gets little value in the selfish USA. However, it's clear that countries and islands that are taking such precautions are far outperforming the US.

Brief passing in a public outdoor space does pose minimal risk, but unless you are clairvoyant you don't know whether you will be put into a situation where interaction is at higher density or for longer time. That's why I keep a mask around my neck when walking on the sidewalk on a hot, sweaty day, and put it over my nose/mouth when needed. The mask will become ineffective if my the mask's pores become clogged with sweat. But I do put it on whenever someone is approaching on the sidewalk.

If you see someone driving in a car with a mask, it's really none of your business why. Maybe they work in a high risk environment and are wearing it to protect their kids in the back seat. Maybe they just got into the car and are so used to wearing it that they forgot to remove it (as has happened to me a couple times). I recently had someone point at me laughing when I had a mask on while mowing my lawn. I've worn masks for YEARS while mowing in dry weather to reduce pollen inhalation. Observers have no effing idea, and it's none of their business.

Finally, have a look at this picture. I was working on my boat in the slip when I looked up because I smelled cigarette smoke. The two women were 150' away smoking, and I smelled their "tracer particles." We can argue all day about how highly sensitive the nose is to aromatic compounds, and how much of a dose of odorless virus particles you would actually need to lead to an infection, and how a mask wouldn't stop those particles anyway. But every time you're outside and smell a smoker's "tracer particles", a little light bulb should go off in your head wondering what you might be breathing in that you cannot smell. If everyone wears a mask, the aerosols that people expel from their mouths and noses are proven to travel much shorter distances.

136056
 

·
Master Mariner
Joined
·
8,369 Posts
I agree with your point TakeFive, but I didn't read it that way. I interpreted it as many of these smaller nations do not have the healthcare facilities or support apparatuses to handle outbreaks while keeping their countries open to visitors. Hence, they may be the first to lock down again because they have fewer options and tools available.

To your point, pretty much every island nation did better than the US on this initial round. They continue to do better and smarter still. Our politicization of this health issue is literally killing us.

Mark
Actually, if you look at the stats; Coronavirus Update (Live): 8,970,475 Cases and 467,699 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Pandemic - Worldometer, you'll see that many of the Caribbean island nations did a fantastic job of not only controlling the virus, but keeping people alive.
As for the "red" states acting like idiots re precautions against spreading the virus, I think most will see the result in infections and deaths so they will reap what they have sewn. However, since their "leader" has shown little regard for leading by example re social distancing and wearing a mask, I guess you can't blame them too much.
There is talk here of reopening the airport soon and I'm sure there will be countries that won't be welcome until they get the virus at least somewhat under control. I hope that will include mandatory isolation in specific hotels as SVG has done, but we'll see.
To the OP: Since most expect a 'second wave' in the fall, I expect the Caribbean islands will again go into a lockdown, so any expectations of the 2020 winter cruising season being on are pretty slight, IMO. Unless you'll need the boat as a residence, I'd leave her safe and sound on land until such time as you can see a future that makes the idea of cruising a reality again.
 
  • Like
Reactions: s_ruffner

·
Registered
Joined
·
21,764 Posts
I take issue with your characterization of island nations as unsophisticated. The US needs to take a look in the mirror.
Obviously, you lack the self awareness to recognize your explicit politicization of the matter, while you criticize those that politicize the matter. I never mentioned the US as the role model. We totally screwed this up at every level, Fed, State and Hospital. They'll do it better and smarter the next tIme, because they’ll have to.

Have you ever had any interaction with a Caribbean island government? Seriously lack sophistication, generally. Poor information, poor communication. Flagrant corruption, not just cute political accusations. My wife and I have both turned down work, because we wouldn’t play the game. No doubt there are exceptions.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mbianka

·
Master Mariner
Joined
·
8,369 Posts
Have you ever had any interaction with a Caribbean island government? Seriously lack sophistication, generally. Poor information, poor communication. Flagrant corruption, not just cute political accusations.
I'm really surprised to see this posted. I've been in the eastern Caribbean off and on since 1978 and have encountered very little corruption. Perhaps it's rampant within the island governments, as it is presently in the US, but every where I've been, entry, exit and overtime fees have been posted and adhered to meticulously, to the point I've been given a receipt for every nickle I've ever given a government official.
Even when importing things, though the process may be tedious and bothersome, any money paid has always come with a receipt and an explanation. However, more often than not, customs officials have given us a pass without payment, rather than going to the trouble of itemizing each item and making us pay duty on each, since it is all obviously not going to be landed and consumed in their country.
Now, if you'd like to discuss open corruption that personally affects we sailors, let me suggest Indonesia, Morocco, Turkey, Greece, and Egypt as places you'd want to avoid if corruption is something you wish not to deal with.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,867 Posts
Have you ever had any interaction with a Caribbean island government? Seriously lack sophistication, generally. Poor information, poor communication. Flagrant corruption, not just cute political accusations. My wife and I have both turned down work, because we wouldn’t play the game. No doubt there are exceptions.
Having spent the past 9yrs living in Caribbean nations and with their governments, I can state that almost all of them are exceptions to your description. Very few are as you describe. Even very few local officials are as you describe.

No doubt there are exceptions.

Mark
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,867 Posts
Now, if you'd like to discuss open corruption that personally affects we sailors, let me suggest Indonesia, Morocco, Turkey, Greece, and Egypt as places you'd want to avoid if corruption is something you wish not to deal with.
I don't have much experience there, but I did spend 3 weeks in Turkey sailing with cruising friends there, and didn't experience any corruption at all. My friends are there full-time and described the yards, marinas, and workers as honest and good, and have had no problem with government officials at all.

Mark
 
1 - 20 of 44 Posts
Top