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Master Mariner
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I don't have much experience there, but I did spend 3 weeks in Turkey sailing with cruising friends there, and didn't experience any corruption at all. My friends are there full-time and described the yards, marinas, and workers as honest and good, and have had no problem with government officials at all.

Mark
Mark, that was my post you attributed to Minnewaska.
I must admit my experiences in Turkey were some years back, but I can't imagine that some of the small south eastern towns aren't still a bit on the baksheesh system.
 

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I'm really surprised to see this posted. I've been in the eastern Caribbean off and on since 1978 and have encountered very little corruption.
Even tho I have had my occasions with being shaken down, as a tourist (mostly in the Bahamas), I was not referring to tourist interactions with Caribbean Island government officials. Even when I’ve been given receipts, I knew they were for fees that didn’t exist or were incorrect. I‘m not even convinced my entry fees to the BVI last winter were accurate. There was no breakdown or calculation. Rather a number circled on the bottom of a page that was double my previous entry.

I’m referring to deeper inside their legislatures, law enforcement and judiciary. It’s not hard to find hundreds of articles: cash payments to high ranking officials to avoid import tariffs, judges dismissing cases. Just a few years ago, the Dutch Caribbean Coast Guard was caught trafficking drugs. In fact, they’ve been making progress in recent years, as it’s had global attention, but it’s still rampant.

My point was not to gratuitously kick the islands, rather point out that few have the governance horsepower to manage an issue like a pandemic, without just shutting down.
 

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Mark, that was my post you attributed to Minnewaska.
I must admit my experiences in Turkey were some years back, but I can't imagine that some of the small south eastern towns aren't still a bit on the baksheesh system.
I see that now. Don't know how it happened, and wasn't my intention. All I did was hit "reply" under your post, trimmed out the bit I wasn't replying to, then hit "post reply". How the quote got misattributed I can't explain.

I don't even know how that could intentionally be done. Maybe a software bug?

Mark
 

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Cloth mask or dust mask wearing is about you not transmiting the illness not about you’re being protected. Protection is increased by a combination of face shield, N95 worn correctly, gloves, gown and studiously following ID protocols.
RNA virions are rendered inactive by being denatured. Alcohol acts as it evaporates in the main but also as a lipid solvent. UV acts directly on RNA/protein as does acids (chlorox).
Pragmatically if you wish to decrease your risk you would decrease risk of exposure. Leave boat/home as rarely as possible. If you do so be in open environment. Ideally with some wind to decrease density of aerosols. In sunlight and appropriately distanced from others. The magical 6 feet is wrong. Distancing needs to take into account environment. Density of aerosol, droplet exposure, stagnant air movemen, level of personal protection etc. Obviously if your suited up and your suit maintains positive pressure with external sterile air you can be inches from virions and at no risk. In a contained stagnant room filled with a density of contaminated aerosol no distance suffices.
The OP speaks directly to my daily concern. My boat is in the hurricane zone. I’m in Massachusetts. I’m paying zone insurance. I’m paying more for guardianship. I’m not sailing. I’m not a happy camper. St. Lucia is opening very slowly. Due to incidence and prevalence Americans are more likely to be vectors of disease than others. A negative test is required within 48 hours of arrival. Testing for asymptomatic individuals remains difficult and a cost here. Our airline is not yet flying to St.Lucia. We rarely pay for flights as we use our credit card points. The US is not in a second wave. Look at the graphs. We are in a continuation of the first wave as the infection penetrates new regions. Herd immunity will not be reached anytime soon. Even with fast tracking 60-70% of the population being vaccinated will not occur anytime soon. Covid will be present in the US come fall by all predictions.
Our hopes are:
Flights will be available late Octobe/early November.
We will test negative immediately before the flight.
Boat will be splashed before our arrival.
Situation will allow us to island jump downwind with the trades heading eventual for the states. Boat will then be kept in home waters until covid risks subside.
In the interim we are limiting risk of exposure. Spending time outside as much as possible away from others. Doing as few trips to stores as possible. No inside restaurants or other non critical activities. Wearing masks due to our concern for others. Following ID(infectious disease) protocols. Will continue to do this regardless of governmental mandates until risk is minimal.

Read a interesting discussion about why the US is an outlier on persistence of first wave. Basically it’s cultural. American culture stresses individualism and self reliance. In the past this has allowed us to be quite successful. Although we are capable of altruistic behavior frequenfly we are resistant to mandates that speak to an invisible common good. It goes beyond a simple red/blue divide although that’s used as a rough measure. This holds comparing us to Asians, Europeans and others. It’s just not in our culture to do what’s necessary in this setting. The current anti intellectualism, anti-science, low opinion of mass media and government doesn’t help either. Nor does the proliferation of lies in the “eithernet “, social media nonsense.
 

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bell ringer
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Nope, just trying to read things that are about a topic thread title that i clicked on to read about instead of something else that it drifted off to
 

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Discussion Starter #28
Bleah ...

I was really hoping for a discussion about how difficult it is to move around the Caribbean right now and what trends people were seeing in the rules going forward. Disappointed that it degenerated into political bickering.

Oh well. I guess I'll try again in a few months with a more carefully considered title and question body and hope for more useful discussion.
 

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I’ve been following this closely. Answer very difficult at present for a US documented boat with US crew. As stated above we continue to hope to island hop from windwards to southern Gulf Stream. Then ride that to New England. At present really only feasible being fully provisioned, depend on watermaker and no landfalls but for sleep breaks under a Q flag. Quarantine and testing requirements make anything else not feasible.
Unless things change our fallback remains straight shot to Newport.
 

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Bleah ...

I was really hoping for a discussion about how difficult it is to move around the Caribbean right now and what trends people were seeing in the rules going forward. Disappointed that it degenerated into political bickering.

Oh well. I guess I'll try again in a few months with a more carefully considered title and question body and hope for more useful discussion.
Well I sure didn't get that from the OP, but I'd be glad to offer my impressions.
Right now, to the best of our knowledge, the French islands are only letting in EU residents and I don't know about quarantines.
Trinidad is still closed to all traffic. When it opens there will be a strict quarantine.
Many EC countries are open but with 15 day quarantines which makes moving about for short visits problematic. Last I heard, SVG required sailors to abandon their vessels for quarantine and reside in a hotel ashore at their expense. Antigua is open but I don't know their quarantine requirements.
Grenada is open to those who wish to wish to come, but they must make prior arrangements and if storing their vessel in Carriacou, they must exit the island soon after haul out. A 15 day quarantine period is required on both islands.
In all cases it is highly recommended that arriving vessels have all the provisions and water necessary for a 15 day quarantine, though some arrangements have been made to supply quarantined vessels should the need arise.
To the best of our knowledge, and my wife monitors this pretty carefully, no country down here has published any information about any definitive plans after July. It seems, as we all are, that the governments are taking a wait and see policy.
All in all I wouldn't expect the winter 2020/2021 to be very conducive to vacationing down here as it is generally expected that there will be a second wave of infections in the fall. We certainly aren't looking forward to any charter guests this coming season.
 
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....
Right now, to the best of our knowledge, the French islands are only letting in EU residents and I don't know about quarantines.
That's interesting. Residents or citizens? I would guess it's the passport that matters, not the permanent home, as many cruisers don't have one. I qualify for EU citizenship, which I've never bothered to apply for. My wife has dual US/UK citizenship. I've often wondered if having the other passport would make situations like this more flexible.
 

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That's interesting. Residents or citizens? I would guess it's the passport that matters, not the permanent home, as many cruisers don't have one. I qualify for EU citizenship, which I've never bothered to apply for. My wife has dual US/UK citizenship. I've often wondered if having the other passport would make situations like this more flexible.
I believe even in the US being a legal resident is sufficient for entry even in these days of limited entry? Perhaps I misspoke, but I don't think it important for this post. Anyone heading anywhere these days needs to check the regs as they seem to change on a daily/weekly basis in some places.
Personally, if I had the opportunity for multiple passports I wouldn't hesitate for an instant. Going to Cuba is a great example of the advantages of what multiple passports affords one.
 

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What passports/citizenship does cuba deny entry
duh
Beginning on Wednesday, the United States will not permit group educational and cultural trips known as “people to people” trips to the island unless they were booked before June 5, the Treasury Department said in a statement. Nor will it allow cruises, private yachts or fishing vessels to stop in Cuba.Jun 4, 2019
 

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Going to Cuba is a great example of the advantages of what multiple passports affords one.
I am not 100% sure about this but I believe that US citizens are generally not allowed to visit Cuba (with some exceptions) independently of whether they use their US passport or another one, in case they are also citizens of another country. At least this is what it was before Obama opened it up, and then Trump closed it again.

How they (US immigration) would know is a different question but that was the law IIRC. At the least you would have to lie at the border when they ask you which countries you have visited, and that is never a good thing.
 

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Not even in Obama's days was travel to Cuba without significant limitation. It's an economic ban, technically. No US citizen is permitted to spend money there, other than for specific purposes. Some exceptions still exist, but they've rolled back the pay to play schemes. Under Obama, if you could afford the "cultural visit" group fees, you could go.

It's a crazy showdown between the two countries, that has some very dangerous history. Nevertheless, I would not go, just because I had another passport. If I really felt the need, it's simply enough to go via Canada or Mexico, with one's US passport. The Cuban's don't care and they don't stamp your passport.
 

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It's a crazy showdown between the two countries, that has some very dangerous history. Nevertheless, I would not go, just because I had another passport. If I really felt the need, it's simply enough to go via Canada or Mexico, with one's US passport. The Cuban's don't care and they don't stamp your passport.
That is correct, and those US citizen who did go to Cuba must have done exactly that. Which means they must have lied at the border if they were asked which country they have visited (I get asked this all the time).
 

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SDR did have a cruise to Cuba. We were quite interested in sailing and snorkeling their southern coast. Due to the relative absence of land development it’s still a beautiful place to dive. However for a US citizen the restrictions were onerous and we didn’t go. From those who went probably a good decision. Remains hard for US citizens to just cruise around and explore.

One of the main concerns for cruisers is not only government mandates but also flight availability. Friends remain stuck in Grenada. They can’t fly out. Also for US citizens due to our still being in the first wave with cases increasing are being viewed differently. As is already occurring elsewhere believe both windwards and leewards will either restrict our access or treat us differently in the future. I’m going to have my yacht manager run my various Diesel engines periodically as I’m not optimistic I’ll be able to return to my boat come November.
 

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So ... for various reasons I got my boat out of the water and on the hard in Indiantown. So, it's reasonably safe from any hurricanes. And I got myself a place to stay in Pennsylvania and a job for the summer to replenish the kitty.

The thing I'm considering now, is should I even try to return to the water this fall? With the lockdowns and everything else, does it make sense to continue working until fall of 2021 and return to the ocean then? I mean, what are the chances that it will even be possible to cross over to the Bahamas this fall? Let alone anywhere else?

I know that it's impossible to be sure what the future will be, but I thought it would be an interesting discussion to see what others think.
It’s pretty obvious that cruising decisions are a subset of the greater coronavirus landscape. Americans, due to the record (“we’re NUMBER ONE!”) death rate and increasing infection rates are beginning to experience restricted entry- no Texans in New York, for example.
Yacht cruisers are ever so much more so. It’s not much of a stretch to say that you can expect no entry anywhere arriving on a yacht (like the cruise ships) until you can show vaccination by an accepted vaccine- which doesn't exist yet.
In the meantime, get your boat ready, replenish the cruising kitty, stay alert to developments, be safe, don’t get impatient.
A worst-case scenario is being in international waters when you develop fever and a non-stop dry hacking cough. Who do you think will let you in?
 

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.....beginning to experience restricted entry- no Texans in New York, for example.
The silver lining now is that governments are starting to understand better ways to manage this. NYs order explicitly defines the characteristics of other state's that drive quarantine, as opposed to target shooting states subjectively. X% growth in cases, for example. Early bans were broad and stupid. RI, for example, demanded quarantine of the entire planet. It was simple minded and evidence of no plan. NYs newest is still far from ideal, but I'm hopeful is an indication that managment of the pandemic gets smarter. I'm not terribly hopeful that Caribbean nations follow along and are more likely to resort to the simple shutdown everything approach.

A worst-case scenario is being in international waters when you develop fever and a non-stop dry hacking cough. Who do you think will let you in?
This is a very good point. I'm not sure I'd personally even want to be a week offshore, if I wasn't certain I departed without the contagion. Tough times.
 
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