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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Unless one of you has a killer buy on a boat, I have a few questions for you all before I dive in and start looking for my last boat.

First off, I dont like anything new. I drive a restored 1972 Dodge Dart with a six in it. I have a 1976 Motorhome I tinker with, and guess what, most likely I will get a 70s something sailboat.

Here are the 4 must haves. 1) 20-29 feet (2) trailer (3) motor (4) head

Ive not seen any under 25ft that have heads (no porti-pottie for us)

So most likely Ill be gunning for a 27-29 footer.

Ok here is the first question. Im going to use 20 foot numbers here, because I am infatuated with a Victory 21. (does nto meet the 4 points above)

Ive noticed after looking at similar hull sizes (20-21ft) The Victory is a tad longer, has a foot narrower beam, rides higher in the water, and dafts less.

Compared to a Cal 20, San Juan 21, and a few others to include its sister the Aurora 21.

What I need to know is for speed and stability is narrow and higher better than fatter and lower in the water.

Ive seen this differences in the 25, and 27ft class boats, and figure the 29ft is the same.

I dont think Ill ever race this boat. Being that it most likely cant compete with the newer hull designs out there.

The next question is, are the bigger boats faster than the smaller ones?

thanks you for your time, I look forward to learning what I seem to have forgotten.
 

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Just to add a bit of value to my otherwise trolling response:

http://www.sailnet.com/boatchk/showproduct.php?product=1839

here's a few reviews - you may be confusing boat speed with wind speed :p

I must admit it is a fine looking boat with a well laid out sail plan.

Concerning 'speed' so to speak, any boat that can plane is going to go faster. the other users on here are significantly more technical and should be able to guide you if speed is a concern.
 

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Telstar 28
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There are a lot of boats that will meet your basic four criteria, which are very vague for starting a search for a sailboat. By motor, do you mean an in-board or an outboard or either? In-board equipped boats are usually a bit less spacious than their outboard equpped brethren, but have some serious advantages when it comes to adding accessories like high-output alternators and hot-water.

I'd point out that longer is generally faster than shorter, but certain designs, like my Telstar 28, which is a trimaran can often outsail much larger boats. :)

Some of the older designs are raced as a one design class, and do not have to be competitive with anything but themselves.

Unless one of you has a killer buy on a boat, I have a few questions for you all before I dive in and start looking for my last boat.

First off, I dont like anything new. I drive a restored 1972 Dodge Dart with a six in it. I have a 1976 Motorhome I tinker with, and guess what, most likely I will get a 70s something sailboat.

Here are the 4 must haves. 1) 20-29 feet (2) trailer (3) motor (4) head

Ive not seen any under 25ft that have heads (no porti-pottie for us)

So most likely Ill be gunning for a 27-29 footer.

Ok here is the first question. Im going to use 20 foot numbers here, because I am infatuated with a Victory 21. (does nto meet the 4 points above)

Ive noticed after looking at similar hull sizes (20-21ft) The Victory is a tad longer, has a foot narrower beam, rides higher in the water, and dafts less.

Compared to a Cal 20, San Juan 21, and a few others to include its sister the Aurora 21.

What I need to know is for speed and stability is narrow and higher better than fatter and lower in the water.

Ive seen this differences in the 25, and 27ft class boats, and figure the 29ft is the same.

I dont think Ill ever race this boat. Being that it most likely cant compete with the newer hull designs out there.

The next question is, are the bigger boats faster than the smaller ones? I read a lot on the Victory 21, and it has been clocked in excess of 30 knots.

thanks you for your time, I look forward to learning what I seem to have forgotten.
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
here's a few reviews - you may be confusing boat speed with wind speed :p
I confuse easy, and yes I did.
(BTW that line has been removed)

very vague for starting a search for a sailboat. By motor, do you mean an in-board or an outboard or either?
I would say outboard. Vague becuase I dont know whats all out there.

Where Im looking at boats Ive not found a one over 25 feet for sale with a head, nor one over 25 feet with a trailer.

I may have to investigate the plumbing of a head, or use a P-Pottie after all :-(
For dry sailing is a higher priority Loo.

I also left off of the first post, the pros and cons of an aft tiller VS one that sticks through the hull about 2/3s rearward (not knowing the proper terminology)
 

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There are many trailer-sailers in the 20-25' range, but as the boat gets bigger, the issues do too. I sail a Catalina 22. It weighs about 2300 lbs. It's easily pulled by a 1/2 ton truck or larger. A larger boat might need a larger truck. It takes about an hour to rig it for sailing once you've arrived at your destination. This is ok if you plan to stay rigged for several days, or longer. But if you are just day-sailing, it's a real pain to step/unstep the mast, rig/unrig, etc. Before long you will just not bother with it.:(

I've used both a portapotti and a 'lugable loo' on my boat. Neither is as 'homey' as a plumbed head, but the loo is easier to deal with. No liquids sloshing around, lighter weight, easier disposal, no hole in the bottom of the boat.:eek:

Don't worry about keeping up with the newer designs on the race course. That's what they make handicaps and one-design racing for. A slow boat, well sailed will beat a faster boat on corrected time and sometimes even beat then across the line.:D

If you really want something over 25', you're probably not going to be trailering. Too many additional issues that don't exist with the smaller trailer-sailers.

Not much difference to the helmsman on whether the rudder is hung off the transom or under the boat. The biggest difference for you is that a transom-hung rudder is removable, and the rudderstock on the 'thru-hull' type runs through yet another hole in the bottom of the boat.:eek:

I guess you have to really think about what your highest priorities are. As you know, every design is a collection of compromises, so you have to decide what is REALLY important to you and what isn't.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks Saildork, you have given me a lot of what I needed to know.

I guess we will have to deal with a loo. :puke

No holes in the hull makes darn good sense to me. I guess Ill be not driving a 400 mile round trip to get that Victory.

I have a 1/2 truck, so I guess Ive been looking at the right size 20-23 feet.

One post and Im already half way done with the biginner bonehead questions.

This length and beam size variation is going to take some looking into. The one thing the Victory was, is narrow. I thought that would be a good thing for cutting water. The 22 and 23 footers seem to have 7 and 8 foot beams.
Thats 2 feet more than the Victory.
 

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Telstar 28
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Just remember, you can generally get two of the three: performance, comfort, space.... and you generally can get two of these three: fast, safe, cheap....

All boats are compromises...some are better compromises than others.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Id go with performance, comfort, fast, and safe given those parameters.

I think a CAL 20-22 may be what Im looking for, unless someone knows some others along these lines. I think the 7 foot odd inch beam will be a limitation on the road. Being Im going to be a trailor sailor.

I had my eye on a CAL 20 fixer upper for a mere $600. With no trailor, Id have to moor it, and figure out how to make/buy/rent/steal a trailor and get it up into my yard for repair. Sounds like way to much effort for my return to sailing.

Can electric trolling motors be used instead of an outboard?
 

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Hey Saturn,

Yes, electric trolling motors can be used instead of outboards. Also, there are lots of 2-4hp outboards out there that are light, don't use much fuel and don't cost much. In fact, Honda makes a 2hp, 4 stroke, air cooled O/B that has a small tank on the motor that would probably move a 20 footer easily. But, as I said, there are lots to choose from, new and used. Hope this helps.:)
 

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Discussion Starter #11
What great about the internet is yoou can find out all kinds of stuff.

Electric Trolling Motors for Auxilliary Propulsion on Sailboats

Using several thurst to HP conversions Ive found. a 55 thrust troller should push a 22 foot boat at 2-3 hp rating. At a couple of knots, depending on a pile of weather and other conciderations. So for less than a gas motor, and a lot less weight and mess. This becomes an option.

But only if I find a boat with no outboard :laugher
 

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Even if you find a boat with an outboard, you can sell the outboard on ebay or craigslist and replace it with the trolling motor.
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
Funny thing is SD, Ive found to CAL 20s, Im interested in.

One is a fixer upper, no trailer, no motor.

One turn key, no trailer, no motor.

So we have the motor part delt with....

Ive been searching to see if I can find the specs on a Cal 20 trailer. I found an 18 ft tailer that I may be able to modify.

If everything else fails, build one.

Look at all the fun Im having, and Im not even wet yet :D
 

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Just my two cents, but I would buy a trailer that is built for your boat, especially if you are going to haul it around a lot. Customizing a smaller trailer or building one yourself could lead to a very expensive situation on the road. Although you may have to spend some money (probably around $4,500-$5,000 for a new one), it is well worth the piece of mind when you are going 65 MPH on the interstate.
 

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I should think you can find a trailer for <$4000. My Catalina 22 rides on a custom built trailer that cost $1500 in 2005. I can't imagine you would have to spend much more than that for the Cal.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
My friend builds trailers, just not sailboat trailers (that I know of).

I can jig it up, and lay the metal, all he would have to do is weld it together.

Ive done aircraft wiring, so I have that covered.

Fixing up and old trailer isnt my first choice either.

Im just not jumping into this hap-hazardly.

The Ideal thing would be to find a total package within 500 miles of my home.

Ill be weighing the options for some time still.
 

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Saturn, Sounds like you've got your bases covered. Hope all the pieces come together for you soon. Puget Sound has got to be a great place to sail. I lived out there in the early 80s (I was in Tacoma when Mt. St. Helens went up), and I just loved it out there. Be sure to post pictures when you get your boat, and if you build your own trailer, it would be great to see that project here. Have fun. Can't wait for you to get wet!!:D :D
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
Got a call today, a friend will sell me a trailer for a 22 foot boat for a few bucks.

Only problem is there is a V2-22 Macgregor sitting on top of it !

Im going down to see it next weekend. Dont tell the folks over in the Macgregor forum this boat may get scuttled. :eek:

Alass no paperwork, no buy it
 
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