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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I got this email a little while back from a friend of mine who is a broker. Sorry for the pagination issues. It does not copy well from the email. Basically. the first price is the list price, the second price is the Boat Show Pricing the third number is the savings:

List Price Purchase Before Dec 8 Savings
Catalina 275 $98,081 $98,081
Catalina 315 $178,548 $170,913 $7,635
Catalina 355 $241,144 $230,244 $10,900
Catalina 385 $282,551 $276,571 $14,890 *
Catalina 445 $389,569 $369,244 $20,325 *

Hunter 33 $173,378 $160,905 $12,473
Hunter 37 $242,029 $224,606 $17,423
Hunter 40 $307,798 $288,703 $19,095
Hunter 45DS $429,507 $408,872 $20,635
Hunter 50AC $526,547 $484,312 $42,235
Hunter 50CC $550,894 $518,603 $32,291

Blue Jacket 40 $432,320 $425,163 $7,157



HOLY MOTHER!

Wow... I simply cannot believe some of these prices.

So, a 31 foot Catalina, a production boat, will cost you roughly $171k (that is WITH THE BOAT SHOW DISCOUNT). With sales tax: $182,000. Now does that include any electronics? Bottom Job? Full set of canvas? Tender and outboard? Air Conditioning? Inverter? Realistically, you are going to add many more thousands to that boat and I could easily see you being into that boat for $200k... for a 31 foot boat!!

Look at the other prices... you will easily be into a 445 at $400k (especially when adding all the electronics, generator, air conditioning, etc)... well over half a million for a 50' Hunter... etc.

I guess it has just been too long since I went to a boat show and saw the prices. I am floored. I am not sure what has driven these prices so high. Is it oil? The cost of parts? Wood? In this economy, I really doubt it is demand. I would sure like to know how many families are taking off, buying one of these boats, and going cruising. Heck, are any of them buying these boats at all even for weekending?

Is it just me, or are these prices out of the world?
 

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I suspect prices are increasing to recapture fixed costs in a lower volume new boat market. Just a guess. Do we know what unit volume has been each year that the major manufacturers
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I suspect prices are increasing to recapture fixed costs in a lower volume new boat market. Just a guess. Do we know what unit volume has been each year that the major manufacturers
Nope. I didn't even go to that boat show. I got the email. I was just floored at the price of these boats... production boats at that! What is the new Hylas running? I would certainly think 7 figures.

Brian
 

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Brand new Hylas 54. Easy 7 figures.

There are a couple 70s around that are only a few years old for $1.5+. Love the boat, until one dismasted in Maine last year. :eek:
 

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Labor, precision tooling and petroleum-derived materials, I think are large cost drivers.
 

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I do wonder what the used market is going to look like in 20 years. Will I be holding onto my then 45 year old boat because anything newer is extraordinarily expensive? Or do 2014 boats lose 70% of their value in 15 years to be competitive with the used market?

I also wonder how modern boats with heavy use of interior laminates (vs the mix of solid teak and plywood in my older boat) will hold up over long periods of time.

It's a good time to buy used boats, they are literally a bargain. I just wonder what the future holds.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I do wonder what the used market is going to look like in 20 years. Will I be holding onto my then 45 year old boat because anything newer is extraordinarily expensive? Or do 2014 boats lose 70% of their value in 15 years to be competitive with the used market?

I also wonder how modern boats with heavy use of interior laminates (vs the mix of solid teak and plywood in my older boat) will hold up over long periods of time.

It's a good time to buy used boats, they are literally a bargain. I just wonder what the future holds.
Will this make used boats even more valuable? I mean, does fiberglass really wear out? I agree with you too about the use of solid woods. The las Catalina and Hunters I saw still used them, but it looked like Bene and Jeanneau have done away with them on the models I saw.

Brian
 

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Hylas 46 was around 600k base a year ago - but the show boat was close to 900! A friend bought a new Bene 393 10 years ago for around 170k. Its worth around 100-110. So its lost about 1/3 or its value in 10 years. Just a very small sample!
 

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I think like cars, all the high end materials (on top of the govt. mandated equipment), Kevlar, electronics, fancy rigging, winches etc. drive the prices up. That along with the weaker dollar/inflation have really taken their toll. The only people buying these things are the very well to do and charter companies. This leaves the middle class folks like me hoping to find older boats in good shape. Yeah, I'd love to have one of the new Catalina 350's but I'll have to settle for something a little older. That's OKay though.

Kevin
 

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I don't think the new boats have really changed any more that expected.
 

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There is a curve where new prices do buoy used prices, assuming the used market is maintained to modern standards. Happens in aircraft, where in fact, some used airframes cost more to buy used today than they sold for new in the 70s. Not like the owners made money on an inflation adjusted basis, particularly after all the maintenance invested over 40 years. Nevertheless, there is no doubt the cost of new influences the cost of used.
 

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Kevin, The 350 is an "old" model replaced by the 355, the 350 has a beam of 13' the 355 is a foot less. The last boat show I went to the owners of the new Catalinas on display were on board guarding their new boats. They'd "loaned" them to the broker, they don't make a boat until someone orders one. If Ford did that I bet a new F150 would cost more too. I hope a lot of people buy new 355's I'd like one when they depreciate down to my budget. If anyone here gets one could you order a fin keel please, since they moved to Florida they keep cranking out wings.
 

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Good used boats today still sell for prices similar to what they cost new. From what I can tell my Pearson 28-2 was a roughly $35k boat in 1986. They sell for $20-$30k 28 years later on the west coast (a bit cheaper on the east coast, where all boats appear to be 25-50% cheaper).

A good J/30 is another boat that is worth about the same now as what one cost new in the early 80s.

Of course this is ignoring inflation. Accounting for inflation my Pearson 28-2 would be more like $75k new, still quite a bit cheaper than $150-$200k that a well appointed ~30' cruising boat costs in 2014.

It isn't only cruising boats that have gone way up in price. A new 505 racing dinghy fully rigged costs somewhere in the $25k range. Good condition used ones are in the $1500-$7000 price range.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Hylas 46 was around 600k base a year ago - but the show boat was close to 900! A friend bought a new Bene 393 10 years ago for around 170k. Its worth around 100-110. So its lost about 1/3 or its value in 10 years. Just a very small sample!
I haven't lost anywhere near that on my boat. Wow! Why dd he take such a hit? If I sold my boat right now, I would not make money, but I would not be out much from what I paid new either. That does not include the gazillion dollars I have thrown out at it since I bought it, which you will never get back, but that is not a bad return for the years of use I have had.

Brian
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Kevin, The 350 is an "old" model replaced by the 355, the 350 has a beam of 13' the 355 is a foot less. The last boat show I went to the owners of the new Catalinas on display were on board guarding their new boats. They'd "loaned" them to the broker, they don't make a boat until someone orders one. If Ford did that I bet a new F150 would cost more too. I hope a lot of people buy new 355's I'd like one when they depreciate down to my budget. If anyone here gets one could you order a fin keel please, since they moved to Florida they keep cranking out wings.
I do not believe that information is correct. Sorry.

Each dealer is required to stock certain boats. They are in levels (I am making the levels up as I do not remember, but I think it is 0-25, 26-32, 32-38, 39-50). In order to sell one of those boats in that range, you have to stock one of the boats in that range. You take out a loan with the bank where you only pay interest on the boat while it sits on your showroom floor, so to speak. Hopefully you sell that boat before your interest payments and cost = purchase price.

What dealers will do is they will sell you your boat, often at a discount, and ask if they can keep it until the boat show and show it at the boat show. You generally close at the boat show. or shortly thereafter. That way, they are still getting their money, selling the boat, and showing their boat as being stocked. If they sold it to you immediately, they would have to turn around and restock that boat in its class. That is why you see so many owners sitting on their boats at boat shows. It is a win-win for boat parties, plus it gives the people who own the dealership a lot of exposure at th show, and that is where they sell most of their boats.

I have purchased all of my boats new, including this one. On all of those boats, I sat on them at the boat show and put them in the boat show. And quite frankly, there is a sense of pride sitting on your boat at the show while others come in wanting something similar. I never worked for Catalina, but I sold a LOT of boats for them. I did this because I didn't work for them, I could sit down with perspective buyers, and be honest with them about the positives and negatives. Perspective owners appreciated that.

Brian
 

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Not to get political, but we have been printing a lot of dollars in the past few years.

Maybe we are seeing an increase in the velocity (turnover) of money, which would make the money seem even more plentiful. I doubt it's happening yet, though.

Pretty soon, when we go to the store to buy a new sailboat, we'll need a shopping cart full of money. (Some sort of facetiousness, irony, hdden cringing at future pain, or something in that statement.)

--

Does this mean I need to up my insirance? I put our coverage at about replacement cost. If that's gone up then I need to increase our coverage (or pause our periodic decrease due to the aging of the boat).

Regards,
Brad
 

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Brad you wont need a shopping cart of money because 99.99% of the people who buy these boats cant afford them so they finance them. Put an x on a piece of paper and she is yours for only 999 per month :) who care wht the purchase price is or interest over 20 years baby its only 999 a month :)
 
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