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I haven't lost anywhere near that on my boat. Wow! Why dd he take such a hit? If I sold my boat right now, I would not make money, but I would not be out much from what I paid new either. That does not include the gazillion dollars I have thrown out at it since I bought it, which you will never get back, but that is not a bad return for the years of use I have had.

Brian
Brian, it's probably correct to say that if you stripped out all the extras that you have put into your boat over the standard spec, you would have a really tough time getting back anywhere near what you paid. It is those gazillion dollars that makes your boat a desirable used purchase.

Two examples:

My ex boss (very wealthy) bought a Bene 50 in 2008, brand new, on a whim, never owned a boat before. He filled it with stuff to the tune of NZ$130K. Within the first year of ownership, he decided that sailing was not his thing and he bought a high-end power launch. When he came to sell the Bene, he asked the original purchase price of just the boat and after 18 months of trying to sell it he eventually off-loaded it at NZ$80k less than he paid for it not counting the toys. The boat was seldom used, effectively in as -new condition. So he effectively lost NZ$210K within a couple of years.

We have friends that bought a Bene 40 two years ago brand new. They paid NZ$325k including taxes. They have spent another NZ$100k on it since then and counting. If they sold it tomorrow, they would possibly get back most of the $325k but the rest would be school fees. Consequently, it is probably true to say that the boat has devalued by 30% in two years.

So IMHO, the notion that an "ordinary" boat retains value is smoke and mirrors. Maybe Hinkley's and similar boats do but the average production boat? I don't believe so.

I have no illusions about this, when I come to sell my boat and am able to recover 50% of what I spent in total, I will be happy. There is a cost of use to everything in life that is hard to avoid.
 

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Labor, precision tooling and petroleum-derived materials, I think are large cost drivers.
I would wonder if litigation protection would be part of the cost as well.

Happens in aircraft, where in fact, some used airframes cost more to buy used today than they sold for new in the 70s.
There is a similar thread going on in the AOPA forums about the cost of aircraft. Seriously, $300k for a 172, $750k for a G36, and $1.2m for a new Baron?! That's ridiculous.
 

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I got this email a little while back from a friend of mine who is a broker. Sorry for the pagination issues. It does not copy well from the email. Basically. the first price is the list price, the second price is the Boat Show Pricing the third number is the savings:

List Price Purchase Before Dec 8 Savings
Catalina 275 $98,081 $98,081
Catalina 315 $178,548 $170,913 $7,635
Catalina 355 $241,144 $230,244 $10,900
Catalina 385 $282,551 $276,571 $14,890 *
Catalina 445 $389,569 $369,244 $20,325 *

Hunter 33 $173,378 $160,905 $12,473
Hunter 37 $242,029 $224,606 $17,423
Hunter 40 $307,798 $288,703 $19,095
Hunter 45DS $429,507 $408,872 $20,635
Hunter 50AC $526,547 $484,312 $42,235
Hunter 50CC $550,894 $518,603 $32,291

Blue Jacket 40 $432,320 $425,163 $7,157



HOLY MOTHER!

Wow... I simply cannot believe some of these prices.

So, a 31 foot Catalina, a production boat, will cost you roughly $171k (that is WITH THE BOAT SHOW DISCOUNT). With sales tax: $182,000. Now does that include any electronics? Bottom Job? Full set of canvas? Tender and outboard? Air Conditioning? Inverter? Realistically, you are going to add many more thousands to that boat and I could easily see you being into that boat for $200k... for a 31 foot boat!!

Look at the other prices... you will easily be into a 445 at $400k (especially when adding all the electronics, generator, air conditioning, etc)... well over half a million for a 50' Hunter... etc.

I guess it has just been too long since I went to a boat show and saw the prices. I am floored. I am not sure what has driven these prices so high. Is it oil? The cost of parts? Wood? In this economy, I really doubt it is demand. I would sure like to know how many families are taking off, buying one of these boats, and going cruising. Heck, are any of them buying these boats at all even for weekending?

Is it just me, or are these prices out of the world?
Most things are less expensive in US but not boats. A Benetau Oceanis 41 costs here (standard boat without transport but with 20% tax) around 260 000 USD, without discount and on boat show discount is around 9%.

I guess that are just the prices that cost to make those boats in US, even the mass production inexpensive ones. I am sure they all are trying to make the best prices they can.

There are at least a good new on that list: comparatively to the Catalina and considering the quality difference I don't find the Bluejacket very expensive. It costs just a bit more then the Catalina 45.

But of course those are just basic boats, a very equipped boat can cost easily more 30 or 40%.

That also explains why used boats with few years are less expensive here than in the US, not only there are more on the used market as they were less expensive when new.

Regards

Paulo
 

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At the same time prices for older boats seem to be at record low levels. Maybe these older boat prices are about to go up? Kind of doubt that. Not many buyers.
I think the 1% folks have more money than ever and can afford to buy these new expensive boats.
 

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I suspect that most sailboat owners are 45 - 70 years old (have no idea if this is correct but looking around the marinas I suspect it's not too far off). That means that the huge wave of baby boomers are now starting to near the end of their boat owning years and are selling their boats creating a glut in the market.

This is nothing but rank speculation so please feel free to comment/correct.
 

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In 1977, my mom and dad purchased a new Catalina 30 for $35000. In today's dollars that's about $133,300. The current price of $170k for a slightly larger Catalina is negotiable, figure a $10k reduction to $160k which is in family with the 1977 price.

The fact is that sailboats only comprise 10% of the boat market so I suspect that scale isn't much of a factor even for the "large" manufacturers. The reality is that boats are largely hand built luxury items. Always have been and always will.

The biggest difference that I see today is that many owners see boats as second homes and finance accordingly. While there is nothing inherently wrong with judicious financing, 90+% financing for a boat is not a great idea IMO.

With all that said, I doubt that I would buy a new boat (or car), the numbers just don't work for me when depreciation is factored. But I'm grateful for new boat (and car) buyers. :)
 

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I got my current boat, a 2001 model, 3 years ago. There are a lot of the model currently listed in the world and all but 2 are a lot more than I paid for mine. Seems to me the demand for MODERN used boats is going up based on pricing. But I bet the demand for the older style boat is decreasing and combined with their age prices are going to drop.
 

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For a comparison:
House prices.
.................................2000........1990........1980..........1970.......1960........1950.......1940
.................................Adjusted to 2000 dollars
United States $119,600...$101,100..$93,400...$65,300...$58,600...$44,600...$30,600

Actual cost:
...................................2000.........1990.........1980........1970.........1960.....1950.......1940
United States......$119,600...$79,100...$47,200...$17,000...$11,900...$7,354...$2,938

Cost of a house over the years. (Check out the inflation from 1970-1980)



Keep in mind that 30 years ago the market was the same even the the boats were smaller.

In the scheme of things how much was a 45' boat in 1980? Who bought it? Someone from NYC, Boston, San fran, LA.
What came on a boat in 1975? Very basic equipment. Electronics package now can run 15-20k easy.

There was no used boat market 30 years ago VS today.

When it comes to New Boats.....for those that can afford one; buy, buy, buy, this way i can upgrade 10 years from now. More boats sold the cheaper they will be in the future.
 

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I checked on yachtworld.com and found a new 2014, Catalina 445 at three different yacht sales sell for $287K to 290K. The 2014, 385 for $214K, 355 for $182K and the 315 for $127K. They are FOB the factory in Florida but you can save another $1,000 if you take the factory tour.
 

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I checked on yachtworld.com and found a new 2014, Catalina 445 at three different yacht sales sell for $287K to 290K. ...
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2014/Catalina-445-2008108/Tampa-Bay/FL/United-States#.UtcqZ_RdWSo

Who can that be? Cruisindad special price on the boat show for the Catalina 445 was $369,240. How can the boat sell out of the boat show for less $80 000? The only situation where I can imagine that happening is a bankruptcy and the boats being sold at cost price. I hope it is not the case.

Regards

Paulo
 

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I checked on yachtworld.com and found a new 2014, Catalina 445 at three different yacht sales sell for $287K to 290K. The 2014, 385 for $214K, 355 for $182K and the 315 for $127K. They are FOB the factory in Florida but you can save another $1,000 if you take the factory tour.

Those are just the base price of the boat with NO options, dealer prep, sales tax, safety equip, etc.
I bought my 445 new. One thing that everyone forgets is the value one gets in any ownership of any item. That value will be different from person to person.
No set price can be place on that value. There is an old saying,, "Accountants know the price of everything but the value of nothing"! Sometimes the value is worth more than the price.
 

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. . .comparatively to the Catalina and considering the quality difference I don't find the Bluejacket very expensive. It costs just a bit more then the Catalina 45.
Went to Toronto Boat Show past weekend. There were all of 15+/- keel boats on display at one end of the building, and a huge hall full of powerboats (was it 90/10 ratio, maybe more like 95/5). The dealers teamed up for a single elevated access platform to see today's popular brands by Bene Cat Hun Jen & a couple Dufours. The show stopper for me was the Bluejacket 40 (in blue) at a show price of $477,000 CDN. I know it is largely built to order compared to the production offerings, but the execution stood out as superior considering materials, finish, ergonomics. I can understand early depreciation in the smaller production boats - higher volume, too many competing models, commonality and I suspect varying levels of owner TLC. The lower build volume boats should hold a higher value, presuming less competition and hopefully owners that will spend on the needed maintenance & upkeep. Similar to land yachts perhaps?
 

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Those are just the base price of the boat with NO options, dealer prep, sales tax, safety equip, etc. .
True but no indication that the prices CD quoted in post #1 were anything other than base price and in fact in that post he assumes they are base prices.
 

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True but no indication that the prices CD quoted in post #1 were anything other than base price and in fact in that post he assumes they are base prices.
I got the same email. I know the outfit that sent it. I can speak for the Catalina side and those prices are fully loaded boats.
 

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Dear Rich People and Poor People with Good Credit,
Please continue to buy new boats that you don't really like, don't really need and in many cases can't really afford so that you can keep them for a few years and then offload onto the used market at significantly lower prices. I enjoy sailing and wouldn't be able to afford it without you generous people feeding the market.
Regards,
A Good Old Boat owner.
 

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Dear Rich People and Poor People with Good Credit,
Please continue to buy new boats that you don't really like, don't really need and in many cases can't really afford so that you can keep them for a few years and then offload onto the used market at significantly lower prices. I enjoy sailing and wouldn't be able to afford it without you generous people feeding the market.
Regards,
A Good Old Boat owner.
A bit condescending isn't it? Why the hell would someone buy a boat that he didn't like?

Why do you assume that the ones that buy new boats don't need them, or need them less than the ones that can only buy old boats?

Why do you assume that many times the ones that buy new boats cannot afford them? After all the maintenance is much cheaper than the one of an old boat.

Why the ironic tone regarding the ones that can afford new boats?

New boats are better than old ones (that's why you are hopping that many buy them so that you can buy them when they are old) have better performance, nicer interiors and need less maintenance.

If I was rich enough I would change of sailboat regularly, maybe each 4 years or so. What's wrong in wanting the best if one can afford it?

Regards

Paulo
 

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I may have been mistaken Brian, but I was left with the impression that for the dealers here in California the boats had closed and they wouldn't have another until it got here from Florida.
I did notice that they seemed pretty tricked out in that they had in-mast mains, electric winches, below deck pilots, hard top dodgers etc.
 

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PaulinVictoria, Your present boat is now 40 years old, when do you think you'll be in the market for that lightly used but NEW boat ? I've got an '02 with 600 hrs on the clock that'll be available as soon as I get a bigger slip.
 

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Those kind of prices are spooky.

I bought a Catalina 309 new in 2007, and it appears that the 315 is at least 70k more than what I paid.

I just bought a 2004 Precision and paid 16.4k. I saw in the paperwork that the previous owner paid about 26k for it, new.

The same boat purchased new today, with the same equipment, would be in the 48k to 50k range. Almost double the price in just ten years.

I can't imagine who is going to pay that kind of money for a 23 footer.
 
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