[bobsuruncle]

I can't seem to find exactly what I'm looking for.

I've decided on an 80lbs Manson Supreme anchor.

On the other end of things, I strongly prefer a manual windlass. The Lofrans Manual Windlass has served me well on 2 previous boats.

The largest it accepts 3/8" HT chain, which has a working load limit of 5400lbs.

The 3/4" dock lines for this boat have a wll of 17,000lbs.

I can source anchor shackles of up to 14,000lbs.

So the windlass is severely limiting my anchoring strength by limiting my chain size.

What should I do?

I cannot afford, nor do I even like powered windlasses .

I live at anchor through named storms and severe thunderstorms and prefer to be safe.

 

[Stumble]

3/8" HT is the minimum recommended for your boat, so it will probably be fine. If I knew I was going to be living in high wind locations I would upsize the anchor and the chain to be honest. Spending $2,000 on an electric windlass for the boat wouldn't be where I would try and save a few bucks however. I see the ability to easily raise and lower an anchor as a safety issue since it means I am les a likely to just accept a marginal set.

 

[bobsuruncle]

3/8" HT is the minimum recommended for your boat, so it will probably be fine. If I knew I was going to be living in high wind locations I would upsize the anchor and the chain to be honest. Spending $2,000 on an electric windlass for the boat wouldn't be where I would try and save a few bucks however. I see the ability to easily raise and lower an anchor as a safety issue since it means I am les a likely to just accept a marginal set.

I've seen you all around the interwebs and respect your input. Thank you.

An 80lbs Manson Supreme is plenty of anchor for a boat with a max displacement of 9 tons, though.

I sat through a couple named storms on a 40 or 45lbs CQR on a 45' mono. How you anchor also important.

The chain is obviously my main concern. It's the weakest link. I say in my post that the chain is my problem.

So where can i find a manual windlass to accept larger chain....or how can I modify the Lofrans to do so?

That's you on the marginal set and being lazy. That's not me. I enjoy manual windlasses. Electric ones are for pansies. Joking, but am definitely not too weak to crank a manual windlass, even leaving an anchorage under sail.

I know it's the internet, but I'm seeking concrete advice on how to use a manual windlass with more than 3/8" chain.

 

[Stumble]

I honestly doubt there is one made, you might be able to find an old one in a bone yard, but I would be a little suprized. I guess you could have a machine shop fabricate one for you, but it would probably cost more than an electric one.

The other option would be to try and find an electric windlass that was replaced becaus ethe motor burned out. Again in a junk yard.

 

[capta]

I'm pretty much willing to bet that if you go to a manual windlass for that boat and do any cruising at all, you are going to cause serious damage to another boat and/or your own one day. There is something to be said for a machine that picks up your chain at 60 feet per minute when the wind's over 50 knots and you are dragging down on another yacht, or the bricks.
We had exactly that happen in Deshays and the boat dragging down on us with a manual windlass took about 45 minutes, with innumerable near collisions and several very close calls of hooking their anchor on our chain, before they had the anchor up enough to get out of that situation.
Had he been alone (sometimes one is just alone; wife is visiting the grand kids, crew's away for a few days, etc) both boats would have sustained serious damage.
It is prudent to have an electric windlass, if one cannot hand over hand the chain and anchor aboard and one anchors on a regular basis.
As for your anchor, I think the 80# may be a bit large, but that's OK (we use an 88#). I see absolutely no reason to spring for HT chain. HT chain has longer links, making it lighter per foot, which defeats the purpose of the scope of chain. Your strength factor should take into account the snub line/bridle most use for daily anchoring. I doubt that you could carry gear strong enough for an anchor to boat hard attachment. The weight of the chain being lifted and the bridle/snub should be keeping you from that hard shock of anchor to boat that will break your gear. I'd think your best bet would be hot dip galvanized 3/8 BBB anchor chain.

 

[Noelex]

You can get G7 chain which is considerably stronger than G4. G7 has WL of 6600 lb in 3/8 size. I think it available in the same link size as regular HT but check. I use metric 10mm G7.

Aqua is one brand. I think even West Marine sell it.

If you do manage to get a larger gypsy don't forget you will be adding a lot of weight.

300 feet of 3/8 is 475 lb for 1/2 chain it increases to 834 lb.

 

[pdqaltair]

For a catamaran, the bridle/snubber is a vital part of system, and will keep the load reasonable. More than monos, there is a temptation to anchor in shallow water, without a lot of chain out, and the surges can be brutal. Make it long ( greater than the beam) and not too heavy (1/2-inch may be right, and carry a spare).

If the snubber is working right you can never approach the chain WLL.

And I would get the electric windlass. Many have a manual back-up if you are concerned about failure (most failures are switches and happen at random, not during storms).

An a good stopper, even though you will have a snubber.

 

[capta]

You can get G7 chain which is considerably stronger than G4. G7 has WL of 6600 lb in 3/8 size.

I don't understand your reasoning here. Why would you think HT chain with WL of 6600lbs would be any better than bbb with a WL of 3700# when the boat weighs 25,000 pounds or more, especially considering the weight in the water is less per foot. I just see it as a waste of money. Once a snub or bridle is added the HT becomes even less important strength wise, but the weight factor remains a problem. The shorter links of BBB are also less likely to deform, I believe, so all in all please tell me why you believe HT is a better way to go.

 

[Noelex]

I don't understand your reasoning here. Why would you think HT chain with WL of 6600lbs would be any better than bbb with a WL of 3700# when the boat weighs 25,000 pounds or more, especially considering the weight in the water is less per foot.

Well, I was simply answering the OP's question.

He obviously feels chain with a WL of 5400 lb is inadequate. The 3/8 G30 BBB you are recomending usually has a listed WL of 2650 lbs

I don't know the vessel, but 3/8 G40 is on the low side for a "high windage 50 foot cat". G30 is worse. If we use the ABYC guidelines for a 50 foot monohull the WL load limit for G30 BBB is exceeded at just 38 knots. The ABYC formula perhaps overestimates the forces, but this is a high windage cat not a monohull.

The low displacement is a mitigating factor, but the OP announces that they anchor in tough conditions "I live at anchor through named storms".

Chain rarely breaks but if it does, without any drag from an anchor the boat moves very rapidly. Not nice.

I would rate the extra weight of G30 BBB (over G40 or G70) chain a drawback rather than a bonus especially on a light displacement cat with a manual windlass. Weight in the anchor is more efficient than weight in the rode. I would opt for the lightest weight rode that provided adequate strength, abrasion resistance etc.

I think it is up to the skipper to decide the safety factors he feels is appropriate but personally I would not be comfortable with your recommendation of 3/8 G30 chain on a 50 foot cat especially if there was a possibility of anchoring in a named storm.

 

[Stu Jackson]

An 88# new gen anchor is horribly mismatched with 3/8" chain. You need to size your anchoring SYSTEM with all component parts reasonably matching the intended load from the conditions that you size your ANCHORING SYSTEM for.

You could just as well have a Navy anchor for the Forrestal on a string.

Anchor System Sizing Tables (Reply #6) & Why Swivels are a bad idea Ground Tackle & Anchor System Sizing TABLES & Swivels

Check the sizing charts in that link.

Either your anchor is way too large, your chain is way too small, or your dislike of anything other than hauling by hand or a manual windlass ought to be revisited. You simply won't be able to find a shackle that will meet the loads you intend to deal with for that boat size, and anchor size with that small chain.

Good luck.

 

[TQA]

I live yr round on a 44ft mono. I am on a 66lb Rocna and 3/8th chain.

50 ft high windage cat I would want the 120lb Rocna and 1/2 in chain amd an electric windlass

My boat came with an excellent manual windlass but the first thing I did was change it for an electric one. I regard this as a major safety item because if I arrive somewhere and am tired or find I am dragging in the middle of the night I can press a button and watch that chain rattle down into the locker as the anchor comes up. I will then reanchor as often as it takes to get a good hold.

 

[Noelex]

An 88# new gen anchor is horribly mismatched with 3/8" chain.

3/8 G7 is stronger than 1/2 G30 or BBB chain and a little weaker than 1/2 G40 HT chain. With G7 chain the normal procedure is for the chain maker to incorporate a larger link on each end. So appropriate strength shackles are not a problem. With G8 shackles you can just get away with a normal sized link in most cases, but it is not expensive to order the chain with the larger links added.

So generally you need not be concerned about a strength mismatch dropping down one chain size at the same time as going from G3 or even G4 chain to G7.

Steve Dashew was one of the pointers of the of the philosophy of adding weight to anchor and reducing the weight to the rode as avway to increase the performance of anchoring equipment and /or save weight.

He uses 3/8 G7 chain with a 240 lb (wow ) Rocna. So an 80lb Manson Supreme with 3/8 G7 is not extreme by any means.

You can read about his anchoring equipment here:

SetSail » Blog Archive » Anchoring System Logic

The Rocna website also suggests there is no mismatch. They actually list thinner 8mm (or 5/16) as the "appropriate" G70 chain to match with a 40kg (88lb) Rocna. The Rocna and Manson Supreme are very similar anchors.

http://kb.rocna.com/kb/Chain

G4 chain is easy and cheap to get. If you have an oversized electric windlass and a boat where the chain weight has little impact it is a good simple choice. If you want to improve your anchoring system without adding more weight. G7 chains are worth considering. The combination of heavier anchor with longer chain (so you can enjoy deeper anchorages and use a longer scope in bad weather) has got appeal.

My ultimate cruiser would incorporate a chain locker well back from the bow with a big anchor winch so lots of standard G4 chain could be carried, but sadly few boats are built this way.

I have some sympathy for those that want to keep things simple and reliable, but I agree that an electric (or hydraulic) anchor winch is almost essential, especially on a larger vessel. The rapid recovery of chain is an important safety feature and the fuss free nature of anchor handling encourages skippers to re-anchor if things are not right.

 

[jann]

the old goiot manual anchor windlass will accept 12mm 1/2" chain gypsy