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Dirt Free
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Seriously? I can't read the regulations unless I pay $50?

Apparently safety and education is not as important to ABYC as making money.

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First of all, they are not "regulations", they are a recommended and recognised voluntary standard just like SAE, UL, CSA, ANSI and a host of others. There are no "regulations" for propane in pleasure craft in either the US or Canada.

Do you work for free ? Why should they work for free ?
 

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ABYC is a great organization. However, I'll join the chorus that I'm perplexed why a safety organization puts up a pay wall to access basic safety information. They have done a couple of vids, but way too basic. It strikes me like the American Heart Association won't publish their findings, unless each user pays.

I understand it takes funding to do the research and I'm 100% convinced that it could be raised otherwise. For starters, you could split the information between basic and higher level. No opposition for pay access to higher level. You could raise it, via donation, from industry and this can be done without undue influence. All sort of research areas do this effectively. You could make professional membership and certification require fees. It should be value to a pro to carry their certification.

However, if they are interested in supporting safety in general, more should be published without barrier, IMO. I often hear those that have paid for years, take offense to that. Let's agree to disagree.
 

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Discussion Starter #24
Thanks for the replies all.
Since the propane locker was built into the boat and others have made the change from electric to gas on sister ships, I think I'll be fine. I just had never heard of such a short hose restriction before and wanted some input.
Thanks again.
 

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Dirt Free
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ABYC is a great organization. However, I'll join the chorus that I'm perplexed why a safety organization puts up a pay wall to access basic safety information. They have done a couple of vids, but way too basic. It strikes me like the American Heart Association won't publish their findings, unless each user pays.

I understand it takes funding to do the research and I'm 100% convinced that it could be raised otherwise. For starters, you could split the information between basic and higher level. No opposition for pay access to higher level. You could raise it, via donation, from industry and this can be done without undue influence. All sort of research areas do this effectively. You could make professional membership and certification require fees. It should be value to a pro to carry their certification.

However, if they are interested in supporting safety in general, more should be published without barrier, IMO. I often hear those that have paid for years, take offense to that. Let's agree to disagree.
I don't take offence. You pay for all "free" information one way or another.
 

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First of all, they are not "regulations", they are a recommended and recognised voluntary standard just like SAE, UL, CSA, ANSI and a host of others. There are no "regulations" for propane in pleasure craft in either the US or Canada.

Do you work for free ? Why should they work for free ?
If a yacht surveyor uses those "recommendations" in an insurance survey, and then the insurance company requires me to abide by those "recommendations" then they might as well be regulations.

The fact that the general public cannot even view these "recommendations" without paying $50 for EACH document is ridiculous.

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That is because the ABYC is not a regulatory agency they are a business disguised as a council with people that get paid for their time to run it. not that it is a bad idea just saying that's why they charge for the docs.
 

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Thanks for the replies all.
Since the propane locker was built into the boat and others have made the change from electric to gas on sister ships, I think I'll be fine. I just had never heard of such a short hose restriction before and wanted some input.
Thanks again.
If it were me, I would make the longer run using a larger I.d. hose, and then reduce it down at the appliance.

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If a yacht surveyor uses those "recommendations" in an insurance survey, and then the insurance company requires me to abide by those "recommendations" then they might as well be regulations.

The fact that the general public cannot even view these "recommendations" without paying $50 for EACH document is ridiculous.

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Then the answer for you is simple. Use a non-Accredited surveyor who does not survey to any standard. Lots of those fly by night guys around that will do it for half the cost of a qualified surveyor to boot.
 

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I don't like the idea of monetizing information which serves the interest of public safety. As this applies to recreational and commercial marine vessels it should be supported by manufacturers of boats and marine equipment not the public with access fees.
 

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Some have said, the ABYC standards are often written in such a technical way that the average DIY user wouldn't be able to follow them. I don't know that to be the case, but understand if it was. Still, as a non-profit safety standards organization, one would think they would publish a user friendly basic guide or have a searchable online database. They also have a fund raising foundation. I'd be surprised if funding couldn't be raised for such an endeavor.

It costs $485 to buy the book of standards. While that could be considered a cost of doing business for a professional, who is distinguishing themselves from lesser informed competitors, it's clearly a barrier for the average boat owner. I read the ABYC mission on their website and it's pretty clear. They are to "be the essential source of technical information for the international marine industry" and exist to "equip our members to be successful". They are really a professional technician and manufacturer focused organization, solely focused on their membership, not a public boating safety organization. That's really too bad, as they are missing a higher calling and have the ability to do more good for the boating community.

In theory, this information is indirectly available via a number of quality maintenance texts that sell for $30-$50.
 
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Anyone may join ABYC and it is not difficult as a member to join one of the various commitees. People who feel strongly that these standards should be freely accessible should join ABYC and change it from the inside.
 

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Anyone may join ABYC and it is not difficult as a member to join one of the various commitees. People who feel strongly that these standards should be freely accessible should join ABYC and change it from the inside.
That's a reasonable point. However, unlike a government organization designed to serve the people, it's a non-profit with a published mission to serve only their membership. It's not like they are failing to do so. I maintain that is untenable, given their opportunity to serve a greater good.

Protesting is a valid form of precipitating change, as well.
 

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What's to prevent a group of sailnetters to get together and share the cost of their publication(s)?
 

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Protesting is a valid form of precipitating change, as well.
It is, however, protesting here is a wasted effort.
Directing a groundswell of protests to ABYC makes more sense.

You can freely access the legally required standards for Canada and the US online although they are pretty thin gruel.
 

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It is however protesting here is a wasted effort.
Directing a groundswell of protests to ABYC makes more sense.
I wouldn't be so sure. There have been nearly 1,300 views of this thread and only about 10 of us are posting. Social media is pretty effective at spreading the word. ABYC, or any other company, would be wise to monitor the entire internet for mentions. Most sophisticated companies do these days.
 

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I wouldn't be so sure. There have been nearly 1,300 views of this thread and only about 10 of us are posting. Social media is pretty effective at spreading the word. ABYC, or any other company, would be wise to monitor the entire internet for mentions. Most sophisticated companies do these days.
Another project for you. Join ABYC, join their board and move that they start watching for your posts on sailnet. This is getting a little silly. I'm out.
 

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Another project for you. Join ABYC, join their board and move that they start watching for your posts on sailnet. This is getting a little silly. I'm out.
Like I said, we can agree to disagree. This isn't about you, so no need to get personal.
 

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For giggles, I just looked up how to join ABYC. I saw no provision for membership as a recreational boater. Interesting. If correct, their tax exempt status is solely supporting the trades, not the boaters.

https://abycinc.org/page/join
 
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