[SloopJonB]

Here's more;

 

[smackdaddy]

This one isn't a Brentboat. The liferails are too short. Very yachty...

This one is not nearly as ugly as the other ones...

Of course, they too ignored Brent's design on the liferails. Actually, it seems many of them ignored Brent.

Strange. I thought they were all grateful.

This one just makes me sad...

No boat should have to go through life looking like that.

This photo shows the real truth behind Brent's marketing program...

He's convinced his customers that "full time cruising" means hitting or sitting on hard stuff. Interesting approach. I really hope someone lets them know that that's not sailing.

 

[bobperry]

That green one looks ok. Not beautiful but not ugly. Clearly Brent had nothing to do with that deck.

I'm waiting to see Brent's own masterpiece.
Bring it on Brent.

That unfinished white boat has some very serious fairness issues aft. Looks awful. I think if I stood back and saw that shape I'd stop work too.

 

[JonEisberg]

This one is not nearly as ugly as the other ones...

To my eye, that one's not too bad at all. I can even picture owning something like that, at least as it appears from the pic... The ridiculous height of the boom is a bit of a mystery, however... Perhaps it needs to be that high to clear the lifeline rails originally spec'ed by Brent?

Most of us aren't shy about posting pics of our boats, I've always wondered what Brent's looked like, and figured one was simply buried too deeply in this thread for me to bother looking... Glad someone has finally issued the 'challenge', but it won't surprise me if he deems us Not Worthy of gazing upon such Exalted Beauty...

 

[smackdaddy]

To my eye, that one's not too bad at all. I can even picture owning something like that, at least as it appears from the pic... The ridiculous height of the boom is a bit of a mystery, however... Perhaps it needs to be that high to clear the lifeline rails originally spec'ed by Brent?

Most of us aren't shy about posting pics of our boats, I've always wondered what Brent's looked like, and figured one was simply buried too deeply in this thread for me to bother looking... Glad someone has finally issued the 'challenge', but it won't surprise me if he deems us Not Worthy of gazing upon such Exalted Beauty...

I've posted a couple of close-ups I found of his boat (in the BS Marketing post). It's definitely not quite what he claims in terms of "perfection".

The problem is that when he does actually show the world his "perfect boat" - as it is now - the whole world immediately sees that his claims don't match reality. It's really that simple.

 

[SloopJonB]

I think I've found the girl for Brent. Won't work, unsocial, unconcerned with esthetics or style, likes unusual colours, even comes with some of her own steel.

 

[Brent Swain]

To my eye, that one's not too bad at all. I can even picture owning something like that, at least as it appears from the pic... The ridiculous height of the boom is a bit of a mystery, however... Perhaps it needs to be that high to clear the lifeline rails originally spec'ed by Brent?

Most of us aren't shy about posting pics of our boats, I've always wondered what Brent's looked like, and figured one was simply buried too deeply in this thread for me to bother looking... Glad someone has finally issued the 'challenge', but it won't surprise me if he deems us Not Worthy of gazing upon such Exalted Beauty...

I usually put the boom 30 inches off the decks, as mine are. The owner did the rig on that boat in California, when I was in Haida Gwai. I have no idea why he put it so high.
Dale was the only other guy who had wire lifelines for several years, until he went cruising on another boat I had put solid life lines on, in Mexico last winter. . He came home and immediately put solid lifelines on the green one in Olympia.Until you have sailed with solid lifelines, its hard to appreciate the peace of mind it gives. Once you have you will never go back to trip wires.

 

[Brent Swain]

Quick - choose one for your next boat.

Here's another pic of Silas Crosby.

 

[Brent Swain]

Re: François Lucas

I guess I was not clear. I was not talking about boats built in a shipyard but home built boats, literally on the backyard on a shed. But there are many that build them with chines on a shipyard and again, all OVNI line, that is hugely popular and are obviously built on a shipyard and very professionally have chines. That allows them to reduce costs and the price of the boats without a significant loss in performance.

Anyway it is more of a aesthetic preference than anything else. Some years ago I didn't like it...now I am used to them.

Since we are talking about amateur boat building and I believe that it is the main market for steel boats as well as for some aluminium ones I would like to post about some French NA that design for amateurs (and shipyards alike) mainly in Alu but also in steel. I believe it makes sense on this thread.

I will begin with François Lucas and his Hermine series, very popular among amateurs and that can also be built professionally:

naval architect nantes yacht designer racing sailing yacht cruising yacht motor boat workboat Réalisations - Designs Croisière

The Hermine 36 and the 40 are the more popular for amateur boat building:

The 36:


[

[/URL]

The 40:








The 47:



Hermine 130



The Tp 44





and just for Classic 30 be satisfied let me put an Aluminium Lucas design without chines, even if most of his aluminium designs have chines. This one is not for amateur boat building but only for a professional shipyard.

The Aventurin 40





Regarding these boats the chines are more a convenience in what regards building easiness but as they are very well designed their negative influence in what regards boat performance are negligible, if any.

This was the NA that many years ago started the "fashion" of chines on open boats. When all boats have rounded hulls he designed a Plywood 40 class racer with chines, not vertical ones like the chines on the 60's but kind of modern ones, like they are used now. Everybody started to make jokes about the boat as a racing boat and about him regarding saying that the chines the way they were designed on the hull would better the performance. Well, the jokes stooped when the boat start winning races...and everybody went back to the drawing board again trying to understand why.

By comparison, these are the snub nosed abortions they consider "Attractive!"
Judge for yourself!

There is zero chance of getting the same structural resistance to a head on impact with such short based twin keels, as you get with 8 ft of attachment to the hull

 

[Brent Swain]

Re: Gilbert Caroff / Duflos

Not true at all. I posted several steel boats on this thread without chines but they were not home built. Fact is that chines make the building much easier for an amateur and many (relatively) modern designs for the amateur boat builder have chines because they make building easier.

The previous post is about one of the most popular European designers for steel amateur boat building Gilbert Caroff, an old and famous one. In this case chines have not to do with a better performance but regarding making building easier. Even professional boat builders like Alubat - OVNI (alu) use chines as a building technique to make the boats easier to build and therefore cheaper since they, if well designed they don't take too much performance on a sailingboat (the ones that are not used expressly to increase performance on an otherwise rounded hull).

More about Caroff in a thread in MetalBoatbuilding:

"Gilbert Caroff (now semi-retired) has about 5000 boats of his design in the water, motor boats, canal boats and sailboats. He has made a speciality in exploratory and polar sailboats. He is well know for being the architect with the highest number of "civil" sailboat that have gone to the north pole, the antartic, and that have spend years in the ice and some even did the travel around the world through the north pole passages."

MetalBoatbuilding.org ? View topic - Gilbert Caroff-Duflos

Here, have a good look at a nice one with a rounded steel one, a Radford design. The difference is that for doing it this way you need a much more complex steel structure before putting the plates in. I am sure Brent or Mike can explain this to you in a much better way.

The same hull in an aluminium version:



Regards

Paulo

These are building methods waterline uses , identical to how metal boats have been built in the 50's. Waterline has hit the peak of craftsmanship, but their methods are 50s technology .Only origami represents any real progress in building methods (and the Aussie Gelignite 35 .)

 

[bobperry]

Brent:
Yes but,,,,,where are the pics of your boat? We are all waiting.

That French design doesn't much appeal to me either, just not my style. But at least there are design drawings so I can assume it was designed.

No pics. No drawings? Come on, give us a treat.

The Waterlines hull looks very nice.

 

[Brent Swain]

Re: Gilbert Caroff / Duflos

http://www.caroff-duflos-architecture-naval.com/fichier_associe/chatam_37.pdf



http://www.caroff-duflos-architecture-naval.com/fichier_associe/chatam_40.pdf

You find the Chatam 37 ad 40 ugly? Well I cannot say that I find them very beautiful but I normally don't find beautiful old hulls and these designs have many years, more than 20 if I am not wrong, but I find them remarkably modern for their time. The designer is really old and is semi-retired now but those designs continue to be built all over the world.

Certainly it is (was) a great design and those boats have navigated extensively, circumnavigated and sailed on the Arctic and Antarctic. Certainly the hulls work fine otherwise they would not have been built in so large numbers. The French are quite picky in what regards sailing performance and have a huge number of options in what regards boats and Nas.

In what regards aesthetics it is a more subjective matter but I would say that they are beautiful to many otherwise he would not have about 6000 boats of his design sailing the oceans and the Chatam series are one of the more popular series.

He seems to care a lot more regarding how his boats look than you, or at least is what seems to me.

Regards

Paulo

Here's another photo of one they consider "Attractive," the way only a hagfish would consider another hagfish of the opposite sex "Attractive."
Judge for yourself!

 

[bobperry]

Yeah but,,,their not your's Brent. Show us your boat. Your big with showing other people's stuff but very short on showing your own. Makes me wonder.

I kind of like that one you posted. I'd have to see it finished but it looks like a decent start if that style appeals to you. We cant all be stuck in 1966. Not that it was a bad year.

 

[Brent Swain]

There is an interesting article in the latest issue of Pacific Yachting. It shows "Composite": (ABC approved) thru hulls broken clean off on the outside flange, leaving a huge hole in the hull. It states that such cracking and breaking of the outside flange is common. A friend had that happen on her plastic stock boat.
Thus, another advantage of steel is the ability to weld in stainless type 316 sch 40 pipe nipples, which have never given me a hint of trouble , nor anyone else I know of, who uses them, in over 40 years of use ( But, I am told, are not ABS approved, unlike the fragile plastic ones, which are frequently breaking). I'll take logic, decades of experience and common sense over ABS approval anytime, especially when they insist I use something which fails commonly, over that which has had zero problems over many decades.
You can pound on them with a sledgehammer without breaking them off. I got kicked off several sites for suggesting that sch 40 stainless, welded in, is stronger than plastic .
This kinda blows all credibility for finding useful info on those sites( including BD.net)

 

[bobperry]

Yeah but, where are the photos of your boat Brent. You sound like the same old tired record. I can't speak for everyone but you are the Dulcamara of origami and I would like to see some good high res photos of your boat.

Maybe you are like me. Photos of everyone else's boats but none of mine. I'm a lousy photographer so I don't take many photos. I just don't have the knack to "capture the moment". But I sure as hell have lots of nice photos of my work.

 

[Brent Swain]

The sheer on my boats is simply the factory edge of the plate, eliminating 72 feet of cutting and grinding on a 36. It can be modified by changing the flare slightly at any point.

 

[Brent Swain]

Yeah but, where are the photos of your boat Brent. You sound like the same old tired record. I can't speak for everyone but you are the Dulcamara of origami and I would like to see some good high res photos of your boat.

Maybe you are like me. Photos of everyone else's boats but none of mine. I'm a lousy photographer so I don't take many photos. I just don't have the knack to "capture the moment". But I sure as hell have lots of nice photos of my work.

They are on my other computer. I will post one next week, if I get around to it.

 

[bobperry]

Brent:
What I like about you is that you do have an honest sense of humor.

You mean next week you could be jammed and not have the time for 10 minutes of photo posting? Email them to me and I'll post them.

I thought about you today. I met with two new clients who have whacky idea and I wondered if you and your building method might fit in. We'll see. I have no problem with your method. I even think one or two of your boats are almost handsome. I think you nailed the sheer on that 34' model. I think you are a twerp. But I can be a jerk so I can relate.

 

[Brent Swain]

This one isn't a Brentboat. The liferails are too short. Very yachty...

This one is not nearly as ugly as the other ones...

Of course, they too ignored Brent's design on the liferails. Actually, it seems many of them ignored Brent.

Strange. I thought they were all grateful.

This one just makes me sad...

No boat should have to go through life looking like that.

This photo shows the real truth behind Brent's marketing program...

He's convinced his customers that "full time cruising" means hitting or sitting on hard stuff. Interesting approach. I really hope someone lets them know that that's not sailing.

The dark green one is Richards boat. He is a welding instructor, and designed the decks himself. He has cruised the entire BC coast extensively, including Haida Gwai, and loves his boat. He has been impressed by the speed and balance of her.
The one in the white primer is the blue one in the anchorage. The current owner bought the bare shell , with most of the deck detail done , for what the builder had into her, $17K ,and finished it quickly.He has lived aboard since ,and will be building my boats for a living. He is young, very practical and a good metal worker , so has more work thrown at him than he can handle .
The lighter green one is from NE Olympia Wa. After cruising with a friend , in Mexico last winter, a friend who's boat I put solid lifelines on, he came home and immediately put solid lifelines on his own boat.
The steel for that one came thursday afternoon and by friday night, next day, her hull, transom ,bulwark caps and longitudinals were all together. He and his wife can confirm that.
Most stock plastic boats I see in marinas, never leaving. Does Smack consider any boats which stop for the night, to never be cruising? Does his boat keep sailing constantly, and never stop? No need for anchors or fenders or mooring lines as you keep moving non stop for ever?
Smack also says one should buy only a scrap boat, to save money then buy only new gear for it, and buy all your stainless retail ,when the scrapyards are full of it for a fraction the price. Then you should tie your boat up in a marina and throw thousands of dollars at it in moorage, then heat it with electric heat. Then buy a house to live in, but the boat itself should be from the scrapyards of used boats,to save money!
I think Smack takes first prize, for some of the densest combinations of ideas ever posted here, or anywhere.

 

[bobperry]

Brent:
I think that green boat is spot on. I could own that boat and be proud.
The finished white boat is rather nice also.
The unfinished white hull is too unfair aft for my taste.

I don't know what to think about the three boats in the mud. If they were my designs I think I'd be happy.

But your attacks on Smack are silly. He has his taste and you have yours. We are all entitled to our own opinions and his are not yours. So be it. I know for certain that Smack enjoys his own boat a lot. It's kind of weird to tell someone, "No,,,you are not having fun." I don't get that attitude.

My life is different from yours. But that doesn't make my life "bad" just different. I would not like to live your life with no family around me. And it's plain from your postings that you don't want a family around you. I'm not sure you know what you are missing but I respect your decisions.

Tomorrow is Easter. Big celebration at the Perry shack. Giant ham, spuds, peas, my own white sauce and some good Riesling to wash it all down. I can guarantee you that there will be no angry people here. You are welcome to join us. I'd like that.