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Discussion Starter #1
I've done my homework, but still not satisfied with what I could find online. Here's my question: Assuming I'm going to sail mostly the Chesapeake Bay, with only a relatively rare coastal outing, should I be looking at a Flicka or '25? I've checked out a 25 - smitten by the 'look', but somewhat concerned about standing room (lack thereof) and performance. 20 wins in first regard, not sure about performance? Another appeal of '25 is that they seem to be underpriced.

Ok, so there is no answer and I have to decide for myself, but if there are any bay Flicka or PSC25 sailors here that are bored enough to comment, I'd be in your debt!

Desire is: modest sized couple to be able to spend a week or two at a time on bay. Possibly trailer off-season. Possibly wander down to keys and beyond.
 

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These 2 boats are surprisingly similar in many ways. For me, the choice would boil down to price, equipment, and condition.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks... Comparing specs is a rabbit-hole and hard to find anyone with first-hand knowledge of both. The 25 is so dang 'shippy' but the Flicka's (particularly those with toilet next to companionway ladder) look so 'liveable' :p
a
 

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While I agree that purchasing a boat is often an emotional rather than practical decision, I feel compelled to point out that these boats will not sail well on the Chesapeake, during the summers. They are heavy and undercanvassed for their size. They will do a little better in the spring and fall, when the breezes are fresher.

As long as you know that going in, and are prepared to accept those shortcomings, enjoy!
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Yes, I'm struggling with that. So far, I'm erring on the side of sea-kindliness (does their short length make that a false proposition?) rather then performance. Since the intent is to multi-day gunkhole, I'd rather get slammed aboard a 6000 PSC than a Compac 23 for instance (another trailerable option), or so my reasoning goes.
 

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They really are great go anywhere boats, but is this your first boat? If so I would buy something a bit lighter and responsive to learn on. The heavy beasts can really hide what is going on, can be good once you know what your doing, but not great for learning. You can learn on anything, but it is not a bad idea to get a little (20 to 26 footer) light weight boat with tiller to play with for a season or two. You may find it is all you need, as wile the bay can get choppy it is very light winds most of the summer and a light weight boat can be more fun. They can be almost disposable cheap, and if a well respected brand should sell quickly if kept clean. Think Catalina, Ericson, Person etc, extra bonus points for a trailer even if you only use it for winter storage next to the house, can save a lot of money. You might look out for a VENTURE NEWPORT 23, as they are very "shippy" and trailerable but have a sail aria to displacement of almost 26 so she should move along in a very light breeze! I know someone who kept one on a mooring and he seemed to spend about every weekend on her, and he loves it.

http://www.sailingtexas.com/Pics/picventure23101a.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Guess I should introduce myself:

Actually not my first boat. 50 years ago I learned to sail on the Elizabeth River in a little B'Whaler 'Squall'. We ran wild up and downriver, and of course back then you could sail right up to navy docks w/out getting shot :-o College-age I had access to 28 footer, then midlife crewed on a recreational racer while living in MS. More recently picked up a little Montgomery 15, mostly as a means to seduce my (relatively) new wife to. We've been doing a little gunkholing in the Monty (GREAT boats :), mostly tributary rivers and local lakes, but of course it's easy to see the 'need' for something a little more livable. I'm fully aware of the dangers of two-foot-itis. But as I approach retirement, I'm drawn to my water 'roots', she appears to be 'game', and small, (theoretically) trailerable but solid boats appeal. The question is 'which one'. Very easy to go from Flicka to 25 to a Dana (!).

And thus, I've arrived at this forum.
 

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Guess I should introduce myself:

Actually not my first boat. 50 years ago I learned to sail on the Elizabeth River in a little B'Whaler 'Squall'. We ran wild up and downriver, and of course back then you could sail right up to navy docks w/out getting shot :-o College-age I had access to 28 footer, then midlife crewed on a recreational racer while living in MS. More recently picked up a little Montgomery 15, mostly as a means to seduce my (relatively) new wife to. We've been doing a little gunkholing in the Monty (GREAT boats :), mostly tributary rivers and local lakes, but of course it's easy to see the 'need' for something a little more livable. I'm fully aware of the dangers of two-foot-itis. But as I approach retirement, I'm drawn to my water 'roots', she appears to be 'game', and small, (theoretically) trailerable but solid boats appeal. The question is 'which one'. Very easy to go from Flicka to 25 to a Dana (!).

And thus, I've arrived at this forum.
Well the Flicka and Diana are in theory trailerable, they are not ramp launchable and will take more than a standard pickup to pull it any distance. Montgomery makes a 23 too, you might look at that as it has a more reasonable sail/displacement of 17 verses the Flicka at 12. But I don't think there are many of the 23s around.
 

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I haven't sailed a Flicka, but I used to own another Bruce Bingham design, and I found the boat sailed better than the numerical figures and common wisdom might suggest, she had similar ratios to the Flicka.

It's true you will be motoring in light winds, but that's what I see most people doing any way. The boat is probably over kill for Chesapeake Bay, but I suspect she'd be pretty comfortable in all but the worst blows.

Note the Flicka 20 is 800 pounds heavier than the PSC 25. She'd be a lot of boat to trailer.

There used to be a company that had a Flicka 20 in their charter fleet on the Bay of Quinte in Canada, but I think they maybe might not be around any more because my google searches are turning up nothing.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Monty 23 FS in Deale as-we-speak ;-)

Sage makes a fine Monty too. The Cat looks nice. But 17 is still a bit small for what we want right now.

Dana's... yep. Seem to always be 2x the cost of a Flicka. That's a lot for a coupla feet.

So... I keep thinking 20 or 25 :nerd
 

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Well you will get 20 different opinions from 20 different folks, that is to be expected, so......here's another!

We returned to sailing in the fall of 2015 after a 25 year hiatus with a Compac 23 diesel. She was a great sailing boat, marginally trailerable, marginally easy to rig, marginally comfortable to stay on, you get the idea. One early summer day in 2016, hunched over below decks in the rain, we looked at each other and said "we need a bigger boat!" That 23 was both simultaneously too small and too big. Too small to stay aboard for any length of time and too large to be a simple to rig and transport vessel. So, when you have something both too small and too big, you will need two things to replace it!

We had lusted after a PSC31, a new design from WIB Crealock, when we gave up sailing, we had also learned to sail on a Compac 16 a buzzilion years ago. Well we now have both. They compliment each other as one allows us to get out for those light wind, summer gunk holing trips, and sharpen our sailing skills while the other gives us a real place to stay (we live almost 3 hours from our boats which are on the Chesapeake) with those extended trips as our skills and time allow.

You may wish to consider that one boat may not fill your needs. All designs are compromises for something, but it is a fact that if you don't find yourself turning around to look at her as you leave her, you are gunna end up having an affair and getting another. We pinch ourselves that we have the boats we have. They both are selling for what they cost new and have classic lines that never go out of style. We have to like the way they look as well as how they sail. Looks and personality! If you strive for that you will not be disappointed. Hope this helps, it works for us.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Interestingly, we've talked about whether we would sell our M-15 (much like your Compac-16) and as you have pointed out, we've concluded we would miss the ability to trailer to mountain lakes. I've also started looking a little bigger than 20-25 and wondering if I should scratch trailerability off the list :)
 

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Interestingly, we've talked about whether we would sell our M-15 (much like your Compac-16) and as you have pointed out, we've concluded we would miss the ability to trailer to mountain lakes. I've also started looking a little bigger than 20-25 and wondering if I should scratch trailerability off the list :)
I would! Even trailering a 23 and trying to rig it, and mostly launch and recover it taught us that as far as a trailer sailer that less is more. We absolutely love the size of the 31. Shoal draft yet built to cross oceans and sea kindly plus seaworthy.

I noticed you are in the Shenandoah Valley. We live outside of Charlottesville. This weekend there is a gathering of the small sailing club at our marina on Saturday. I do know a fellow that is bringing his Flicka and joining us. Maybe you should consider a road trip for Saturday! You can see a Flicka and a 31 and compare. They allow non-members to attend for a $5 contribution for the grill and beverages. Folks are encouraged to bring sides. It is a Cheeseburger in Paradise theme so tacky flowered shirts i am sure will be visible! There are also several Compac owners coming from other locations and joining in.

Hey why not! Reach out if interested and I will provide particulars. Oh, there is a 23D at our marina as well.
 

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Well you will get 20 different opinions from 20 different folks, that is to be expected, so......here's another!

We returned to sailing in the fall of 2015 after a 25 year hiatus with a Compac 23 diesel. She was a great sailing boat, marginally trailerable, marginally easy to rig, marginally comfortable to stay on, you get the idea. One early summer day in 2016, hunched over below decks in the rain, we looked at each other and said "we need a bigger boat!" That 23 was both simultaneously too small and too big. Too small to stay aboard for any length of time and too large to be a simple to rig and transport vessel. So, when you have something both too small and too big, you will need two things to replace it!

We had lusted after a PSC31, a new design from WIB Crealock, when we gave up sailing, we had also learned to sail on a Compac 16 a buzzilion years ago. Well we now have both. They compliment each other as one allows us to get out for those light wind, summer gunk holing trips, and sharpen our sailing skills while the other gives us a real place to stay (we live almost 3 hours from our boats which are on the Chesapeake) with those extended trips as our skills and time allow.

You may wish to consider that one boat may not fill your needs. All designs are compromises for something, but it is a fact that if you don't find yourself turning around to look at her as you leave her, you are gunna end up having an affair and getting another. We pinch ourselves that we have the boats we have. They both are selling for what they cost new and have classic lines that never go out of style. We have to like the way they look as well as how they sail. Looks and personality! If you strive for that you will not be disappointed. Hope this helps, it works for us.
I like that approach! If you have room to put a small trailerable in your driveway, they could be no more expensive than a new autopilot on the big boat. And totally free if you can later sell the small boat for what you bought for.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
PM sent!

I would! Even trailering a 23 and trying to rig it, and mostly launch and recover it taught us that as far as a trailer sailer that less is more. We absolutely love the size of the 31. Shoal draft yet built to cross oceans and sea kindly plus seaworthy.

I noticed you are in the Shenandoah Valley. We live outside of Charlottesville. This weekend there is a gathering of the small sailing club at our marina on Saturday. I do know a fellow that is bringing his Flicka and joining us. Maybe you should consider a road trip for Saturday! You can see a Flicka and a 31 and compare. They allow non-members to attend for a $5 contribution for the grill and beverages. Folks are encouraged to bring sides. It is a Cheeseburger in Paradise theme so tacky flowered shirts i am sure will be visible! There are also several Compac owners coming from other locations and joining in.

Hey why not! Reach out if interested and I will provide particulars. Oh, there is a 23D at our marina as well.
 
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