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seeker of wonder
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84 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
My Allied Seawind has always had one beefy 12" bronze cleat behind the windlass. This one cleat has been the primary bow cleat for docklines, anchor snubber, etc.

My preference would actually be for a stout, heavy-duty sampson post going all the way to the keel, but this would take up too much room in my chain locker which is directly underneath, so lacking that option, I've been thinking about twin bow cleats for more options for tying up doubled docklines, double snubbers, etc. I've just happened upon a pair of big 12" bronze Herreshoff cleats for $25 each.

So am just wondering what people think here...twin bow cleats worth the cost and time for installation??
 

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Telstar 28
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43,289 Posts
I would go with two cleats.

  1. It makes handling port and starboard lines easier, since they're not tied to the same cleat.
  2. It allows you to setup primary and secondary mooring pendants a lot easier.
  3. It spreads the load over more area of the deck.
  4. It gives you a backup if one of the cleats gets damaged or rips out. If you only have one cleat and it tears out...you're screwed.
  5. Finally, when securing the boat for a storm, having two cleats allows you to use more lines than a single cleat would.
BTW, my boat came with a single bow cleat, and I installed two larger cleats in its place.
 

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If you and your friends enjoy anchored raft-ups, two bow cleats are virtually essential... You'll be needing a cleat for your rode, and each neighbour. Really hard to do with a single cleat, esp with the smaller ones typically seen on some production boats.
 

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seeker of wonder
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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks a lot, Sailingdog and Faster...that's enough encouragement for me to make the right decision and install two cleats to replace the one.

Now I just have to think of what to do with the old 12" bronze cleat...the thing's a beauty! I think it's a Merriman. I'd hate to get rid of it. I think I'll keep it and use it for the front door handle in a house...'cept I have to get a house, first! ;)
 

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ASA and PSIA Instructor
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Two cleats are better than one, but they're likely to end up near the toe rails so think through how fair the leads are from your chocks/rollers to be sure you aren't introducing a chafe point.
 

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Telstar 28
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43,289 Posts
Better yet mount the cleats so that you eliminate the need for chocks.
Not often possible. Raised toe rails, etc., often make chocks a necessity.
 

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Telstar 28
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But these can be a problem to secure well enough to handle the loads involved. If the boat was designed with them from the get go, that's one thing, but retrofitting them isn't always so easy or a good idea for that matter.
Cleat on top of raised toe rails--or better yet, bulwarks--usually give a great range of fair leads. Very happy with mine.
 

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I know on my boat the raised toe rail is where the genoa tracks are mounted. There is no change in cross section of the FRP of the toe rails along the entire length of the boat. I have chocks on the toe rail already that are seeing similar loads to a cleat. I would also think that the toe rail is more suited to this kind of loading than a spot in the middle of the foredeck with two holes drilled through it into a backing plate.

I will also say from my understanding of boat construction the area around the toe rail is pretty strong. You have a bonded and mechanically fastened joint and there is usually no balsa core in the deck at that point.
________
big women Cams
 

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seeker of wonder
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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
I finally finished the installation of the twin bow cleats. Here is a pic (sorry for the fuzzy photo, I didn't realize it was fuzzy until after I uploaded):

Incidentally, I think my favorite option would be to have eye-chocks built right into the bulwarks, as on a ship. and my bulwarks are solid enough and tall enough for that...but that is more of a project than I wanted. If I was going to do that, I'd also go ahead and put built in scuppers in the bulwarks p/s in various places all the way to the stern for shedding excess water. But not THIS weekend, thanks.

This installation gave me a nice strong set of twin cleats...I wish I would have endeavored that long ago!

NOTE: You can't really see the bronze chocks port and starboard, but they're there. This new installation actually gives me a slightly better lead than the original....at least for the bowlines, not the spring. Yeah...I KNOW that's not the perfect place to run the aft spring line to...too acute of a lead. Depending on if floating dock or regular dock, I often just run it over the toe-rail. Less chafe, but more wear on teak if long-term. Maybe a bronze rub-strip atop the teak all the way to midships would work, I guess.




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Looks good... did you add that raised section or was it already there?

Seeing your setup with what I assume is dual chain lockers, there's yet another rationalization for dual cleats in the event you needed both anchors out!
 

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Well you have three cleats, use all three, leave the one thats there where it is as your mooring/anchoring cleat, then have a port and starboard one also,
 

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seeker of wonder
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Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
Looks good... did you add that raised section or was it already there?

Seeing your setup with what I assume is dual chain lockers, there's yet another rationalization for dual cleats in the event you needed both anchors out!
The raised platform was there originally as the backing just for one cleat, which was in the center of the platform.

I've always thought it was a waste just to have one cleat on that big platform...I used to have to wrap additional lines around my windlass and even my mast, as I ran out of room on the cleat horns.

Yes, the chain locker is divided below, with seperate hawsepipes. It is divided by a bulkhead that I put in fore/aft so that the port chain doesn't fall over the stbd chain.

As for using two anchors, I generally rely on Moitessier's method of two anchors on one rode...these are seperated by a seperate length of chain about 20 feet long which I attach at a point at least 25 feet from the primary anchor...so that both anchors don't collide and foul each other in a strengthened storm. This system works GREAT!!!...and has never let me down (knock on wood!). The farthest anchor from the bow (usually the CQR for me) becomes the primary anchor, the closer is the secondary anchor (Danforth for me). One anchor always stops the other from dragging. Even if the wind strengthens and blows from 180 degrees, I won't foul, due to the difference in chain length on the secondary anchor. I use multiple chain swivals. Using this system, you never have a problem with two rodes fouling each other. I think Moistessier was a genius!
 

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I was at a boat show a few years ago and looked at quite a few boats. All the really beautiful and expensive boats had massive bronze cleats, and fairleads where the lines passed through the rail. You obviously were going to need lots of chafing gear for your lines. Over at the Hunter booth with the ugly to me bubble boat look, every Hunter had the cleats installed in a position where every line only touched the cleat, not deck, rail or chocks, and no chafe gear needed. My thought was "They sure are ugly, but they got the cleats right!"

Gary H. Lucas
 

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Hi SoulVoyage,

My Seawind 30 came with 2 cleats where yours are now located and open chocks on the rail just behind the bow pulpit bases. The position of the chocks has lead to chafing of the wooden rail from the mooring pennant. It could have been avoided with a stainless strip, but now the rail has to be repaired first. If you take on the project of putting hawse holes in your bulwarks, I'd appreciate it if you could post pics. That would be a nice upgrade from the existing chocks.

P.S. I'd like to get a half hull like the one pictured in your avatar. Can you tell me where you got it?



 
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