[TakeFive]

I think I've died and gone to heaven. My friend who lives in Maine and owns a Mason 44 in Galesville, MD wrote to me today, basically saying, "Since we spend the whole summer in Maine, would you be willing to cruise in our boat a few times this summer?"

Well, OF COURSE!!!!

This is a gorgeous boat that she really keeps in fantastic shape. And it's probably a win-win, since airing the boat out a few times during the summer will be good for the boat.

I'm looking for advice on logistics of doing this. Most specifically, insurance coverage to protect her property and all of our liability. This is not a charter situation, since no money will change hands. It's loaning a boat to someone else to use without the owner present. I know that my BoatUS policy only covers my boat (although my towing coverage applies to me on whatever boat I'm on). She says her insurance is through USAA. Obviously she is going to check. But I'm curious whether any of you have any experience with loaning a boat to others. Are there insurance companies that do/do not cover this? If her policy does not cover this, is there someone who could sell me a policy to protect her boat (and my liability) while I am sailing it?

How do fractional owners cover the insurance issue? That might be the closest analogy, although I clearly have no ownership interest in this boat.

 

[sailingfool]

Event thought there is not money exchanging hands, I would think you would need to go through the same process a charterer would, where her insurance company issues a rider covering your use of the boat, for a fee of course. Many insurance companies will not do charter riders, although where this is not a commercial arrangement, maybe it'll be different. I think the call is up to her insurance company.

 

[kd3pc]

I wish I had a friend like that.

enjoy the boat, fair winds

 

[scratchee]

I would consider offering to pay for an insurance rider to cover this arrangement.

 

[FDR14127]

Oh I remember this from Business Law 104 in college, it was called a bailment. Can't help you as I hated the course and slept through it. Cured me from ever going to law school. I will tell you she has an excellent insurance company, mine since I was in college. They will give you the straight answer, probably no, but may underwrite the risk with one of their captive companies. They have one of their rare offices in Annapolis. They will not insure my boat as I keep in a marina 400ft outside of the US in Canada. Strange as they insured the family car when we lived in France.....

 

[eherlihy]

I also wish that I had a friend like that... Feel free to introduce me to her.

I believe that she should contact USAA and add you as an operator of the vessel. They may want to see a sailing resume, or even your policy on your boat, in order for them to assess their risk of providing coverage to her for your operation of her boat.

 

[scratchee]

I also have USAA for my cars, but when I contacted them about my boat they wrote a policy through Progressive. I'm guessing your friend has the same arrangement.

 

[TakeFive]

I would consider offering to pay for an insurance rider to cover this arrangement.

I will, of course, pay for this and anything else that she will allow me to.

I also wish that I had a friend like that... Feel free to introduce me to her.

She really is an extraordinary person. I went to high school with her and she was (by far) the smartest person in math class. I didn't see her for about 20 years, but ran into her on the Internet about 15 years ago and we stayed in touch.

My wife and I went cruising with her and her husband last October and it went very well. I was able to take over the helm for several hours each day, giving her a good rest. I'd tweak the sails a little and pick up some speed without sacrificing comfort. They kept commenting on this, although I didn't really even notice until they pointed it out. I think what impressed them most was that my wife and I seemed to know exactly where to go and what to do at each stage of the trip. I'd go forward and spray off the chain while she was cranking in the anchor, or I'd go forward and get the spring lines attached when docking before the boat was even halfway in the slip, so it couldn't possibly hit the dock. By the end of the trip, they seemed to have a lot of confidence in our abilities. We will still need a good orientation cruise with them to make sure we know the boat well, since we never anticipated using their boat without them present.

I agree with you that I am extraordinarily fortunate to have such a friend. I do feel like I won the lottery, so long as we can get the insurance worked out. It's too nice a boat to go out unprotected.

 

[scratchee]

I will, of course, pay for this and anything else that she will allow me to.

Sorry if I sounded patronizing about paying for it. What I meant was that I would expect the solution to be a temporary addition to her insurance (the rider), rather than being covered under her existing policy or buying a completely new policy.

 

[Bill-Rangatira]

sounds like a non equity boat share
having the use of the boat ... a very generous offer
if i were in this situation i would help out with up keep costs as well

 

[SimonV]

If theirs is a normal comprehensive insurance policy then there will be a clause that covers you, or any other person using the vessel with the owners permission. But check first.

 

[Minnewaska]

Here's a very important insurance issue. Just being added as a rider or as an authorized operator may only mean that her insurance coverage remains in effect for her. Not you. In other words, if you bang up the boat or cause damage to another, they pay to cover her (the insureds) loss, because they agreed they would cover losses with you operating. Then they come to collect (subrogate) from you, for causing the loss. Authorized operator riders are how owners typically get coverage for a delivery captains. However, the captain's liability back to the insurance company is not covered. Many delivery sippers don't seem to know this.

You need to be an additional insured party, along with the owner.

 

[TakeFive]

Here's a very important insurance issue. Just being added as a rider or as an authorized operator may only mean that her insurance coverage remains in effect for her. Not you. In other words, if you bang up the boat or cause damage to another, they pay to cover her (the insureds) loss, because they agreed they would cover losses with you operating. Then they come to collect (subrogate) from you, for causing the loss. Authorized operator riders are how owners typically get coverage for a delivery captains. However, the captain's liability back to the insurance company is not covered. Many delivery sippers don't seem to know this.

You need to be an additional insured party, along with the owner.

Yes, the thought had occurred to me that her insurance might cover her liability while I'm captain, but it may not cover me.

So if I need to go get my own insurance to cover my own liability, what sort of policy to you recommend? And am I going to have to pay for another survey of her boat? That's my nightmare scenario.

I know from past inquiries that my boat and home/umbrella policies would not cover me when captaining a charter vessel. Everyone told me that the charter company's insurance would cover that (though now I'm not so sure). Is there a reasonably priced policy out there that covers people in charter-like situations where you're on someone else's boat for a couple weeks a year?

 

[djodenda]

I've leant out my boat in this way several times, mostly to my brother. You should, of course, verify this with your insurance company, but hasn't been a problem in my case (Boat US and others)

The biggest downside for you, and I have seen this happen, is that you are going to wind up being spoiled by the bigger, nicer boat and want one of your own.

Now that is going to cost you!

 

[rugosa]

We do have a friend like this. He is 80, passionate about sailing all his life, far beyond doing any maintenance, a bit challenged approaching his dock. So, we take care of the cleaning and maintenance of the boat as if we own it, make recommendations on long term repairs the boat will need and shop for competitive solutions. He pays for materials (we give him a spreadsheet with receipts once the boat is on the hard each year), we cover the sweat equity and witness the joy he has when he sees his boat the way he imagines it should be. We take him and his guests sailing a couple Sundays each month, provide the food & beverages. We have exclusive use of the boat when we need it, and race main & jib every Wednesday with owner at the helm.

 

[Stumble]

Note this isn't legal advice, but GENERALLY if you are added as an additional named insured that is all it takes to cover you under her insurance. It is normally pretty painless so long as it isn't for commercial use. So far as the insurance company is concerned there would be no difference than if she was the operator and something happens.

Some insurance policies cover this automatically for an authorized operator, some require a list and resume. Our policies allow us to loan the boat to anyone for up to 10 days a year without having to name them. It is very policy dependent so double check with the insurance company.

 

[Mark1948]

You need to have an agreement on who pays the costs of equipment that breaks down under your command.

 

[Minnewaska]

.....Is there a reasonably priced policy out there that covers people in charter-like situations where you're on someone else's boat for a couple weeks a year?

Yes, as I said. You need to be added to the owners policy as a named insured. Not simply as a rider that allows you to be an authorized operator.

Talk to the agent.

 

[TakeFive]

Yes, as I said. You need to be added to the owners policy as a named insured. Not simply as a rider that allows you to be an authorized operator.

Talk to the agent.

I passed on your advice to my friend.

Another question: Should my wife also be a named insured, since she may take the helm from time to time? Or is she automatically covered by virtue of our joint tenancy?

 

[Minnewaska]

I passed on your advice to my friend.

Another question: Should my wife also be a named insured, since she may take the helm from time to time? Or is she automatically covered by virtue of our joint tenancy?

If your wife may be operating the boat and potentially responsible for damage or liability, then absolutely include her on the policy as a named insured. No doubt the insurance company is going to want resumes from all insureds.

Joint tenancy is only going to matter, if one of you is dead and the survivor has to pay liability out of an estate. Get proper insurance.