[botanybay]

I have been researching re-chroming winches and have gotten to the point of knowing what I don't know

There appear to be several kinds of chrome processes, one that is used for bumpers (decorative chrome) and one that is wear resistant (industrial chrome or "hard chrome").

Now from an engineering perspective I assume that the industrial chrome is stronger and would last longer but it is noted to not have nearly the polish as the decorative chrome. But, do I need the industrial chrome or is the decorative chrome what was there originally?

Does anyone know what the original chrome process is for chromed bronze winches? I am working with Lewmar winches from 1990 (i.e. the previous style) and have 12 large winches to re-chrome.

If anyone has actually had winches re-chromed and used them for a while I would be very interested in the result.

As an interesting aside, as I tend to pull the winches apart for service every winter having to send them out every few years for additional coatings would not be a significant problem, it would just be part of the normal maintenance.

Thanks

 

[botanybay]

re-chrome winches

Well, I have sent some pictures off to a local industrial chrome shop who is interested in the work. If they like what they see in the pictures I will drop a winch by for them to look at.

This would be the "hard chrome" process, I am also checking on a couple of "dress chrome" shops to see what they recommend.

Hopefully someone on here will have actually had success with this!

 

[botanybay]

So re-chroming can be successful

I had my 30yo Lewmar 40s hard chromed two years ago and they look fantastic. Nassau Chromium in Mineola, NY did them -- wasn't cheap (about $300 for the pair, IIRC) but they look like new. No flaking/chipping and a deep, wet-look finish. I'm not a chrome/bling guy and probably would go with grey anodized if I were replacing, but these were originally chrome with roughly 50% or more worn off, and re-chroming brought them to like-new condition. FTR, I keep them under covers when we're not sailing.

Some have suggested going to a custom motorcycle shop. Some larger places wait until they have a number of smaller jobs and do them together instead of doing them individually. I had to wait about a month to get them back.

Do you know what process they used? i.e. hard chrome vs. show chrome? The $150/winch is very reasonable I am trying to determine what it is I should ask for. If you have gotten a couple of years out of them and they still look good this is definitely on the right path!

As best I can tell, the hard chrome is a thick coating applied directly to the base metal and will have some degree of imperfections, the show chrome uses a base coat of copper which is buffed to a high polish and then a layer of nickle is applied and buffed to a high polish prior to the final layer of chromium.

I am guessing that the hard chrome (also known as "industrial chrome") which is used to build up crankshaft diameters and then milled or for hydraulic cylinders is probably what I am looking for.

Even if I had to re-chrome every few years that would be good.

Thank you so much for the feedback that this is possible and the results can be good.

 

[botanybay]

There is a lot to this than you seem to have gleaned but to start from the beginning the most typical form of chrome electro- plating is triple plating which uses copper alloy as the base coat, a variety of alloys, but usually nickle based, for the second plated coat, and a finish plated coat of Chrome. It does not matter whether you are doing an engineered chrome finish (AKA Industrial or hard coat) or decorative on bronze, bare metal chrome plating needs to be a triple plated process in that chrome does not adhere well directly to the bronze or most other metals. Looking at the wear pattern on my Lewmars they were clearly triple plated originally.

The difference between engineered chrome plating and decorative chrome plating (besides minor differences in the alloys) is that engineered chrome plating is a much thicker coating layer than decorative (thousands of an inch vs millions of an inch and occasionally decorative plating only has a nickel base plate layer). The engineered chrome has enough thickness to stand up to pressure applied to its surface. Since nickel and copper are softer metals, the sheer thinness of the decorative coat makes it seem softer and to fail more easily. A carefully prepared and plated Industrial Chrome plating should last a decade or more in use on a winch if it is usually cleaned of salt after it is used.

As noted, Lewmars have a very fine non-skid pattern, and the prep and plating fill these in a bit so there is less grip. This can be problematic on bigger boats or on a winch that has many replatings or on a boat that has been in need of rechroming for so long that the non-skid pattern has worn through. The interesting thing is that on properly loaded winches, the chrome generally does not fail on the non-skid gripping surfaces of the winch but on the smooth top of bottom flat which of course means that there should be pletty of non-skid left during the first rechroming.

Jeff

Great information!

In my case the loss of plating is on the smooth base of the winch (probably caused by a bad lead angle which the prior owner may have been using) and especially the turn of the winch coming off the smooth base. The rough surface plating is completely intact.

So, it sounds like the industrial or hard plate chrome is what was most likely used by the original manufacturer?

So did you end up with an industrial/hard plate chrome process or the thinner process for your winches...

Thanks Jeff!

David

 

[botanybay]

New England Chrome looks promising!

I'd be careful specifying hard chrome for winches. It doesn't provide particularly good corrosion protection to the base metal.

Hard chrome is what's used on the piston rods of hydraulic cylinders. It's actually fairly porous, and holds a film of oil in it. If you see a cylinder that's been exposed to the weather for a few months without cycling, you'll see rust coming though. I expect salt exposure would accelerate that process.

On "decorative" chrome the nickel layer provides most of the corrosion protection. The final chrome layer protects the nickel from tarnishing.

A shop doing decorative work can give you a thicker layer of chrome. They just leave the parts in the tank longer. Tell them the winch drums need to be particularly wear resistant and they can probably recommend settings for them.

New England Chrome has been advertising in Good Old Boat for years. I don't have any experience with them, but they might be worth a call.

Good luck,

Tim

Thank you for the lead on new england chrome, this is the first place I have seen specifically note that they do winch drums for sailboats.

I really hate to tell someone what they should be using but rather have someone with experience tell me what they think I should be doing. I will give them a call tomorrow morning and see what they can tell me.

David

 

[botanybay]

Gramp34 has it exactly right. The main difference between the two is the prep and process. Decorative chrome uses some brightening alloys and is designed to throw well into nooks and crannies in very thin layers where industrial chrome is engineered for hardness, and speed of deposition but the material is similar.
Decorative chrome typically uses a copper layer first primarily to seal the parent material for corrosion resistance as plated chrome is very porous. That is not to say industrial chrome can not be plated over copper,(it's done all the time for carbon steel marine duty piston rods) it's just that industrial applications don't normally require it so industrial shops have no need to dedicate space and expense to have a copper tank.

Ind. chrome can easily be deposited in thicknesses exceeding .020",however .002" would be lots for a winch that combined with the harder deposit (78 RC) means much greater wear resistance. Because mirror finishes are not required, Ind. shops won't have the buffing equipment to get a show finish, again, not to say ind. chrome can't buff up surprisingly well.

So what it boils down to is what your priorities are - Dec. chrome will look fantastic, wear reasonably well and protect the base material well whereas heavily plated ind. chrome over copper will last for the life of the boat and if reverse etched for 30 sec. after plating will grip your lines like sh*t to a blanket but will have a grey appearance. BTW you would expect to pay 2 to 3 times more for the industrial chrome proces described.

And yes, I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night (and own an industrial chrome shop).

Thank you so much for the information!

I obtained a reference to what is originally on the Winches which I am still trying to work through completely but it is a copper undercoat, a double or triple laer of nickel to a total of 25 microns, and then a minimum of 0.5 microns of chromium.

The parts are copper plated, polished, and then re-coppered and polished prior to the three coats of nickel and then a chromium layer.

At least I now know what I am trying to achieve!

The base specification is BS EN 12540:2000 service condition 4.

Off to find a shop which can do this!

I'll let you know what I find.

 

[botanybay]

I have 6 of these re chromed by the PO (2 x 28 ST, 1 x 22 ST, 1 x 22, and 2 x 16 - all Barlow) and had no idea about the technology. I am still a little concerned about the "grip" but they look nice. Time will tell.

They definitely look great!

What is "by the PO" I assume that was the vendor you used?

Thanks

 

[botanybay]

That's usually Previous Owner

Ah, much like my "Came With The Boat"

Thanks