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Does anyone know which way the seals (water and oil seals) should face? Should the spring side be facing the impeller side or not? Do they both face the same way? thanks
 

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Learning the HARD way...
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Does anyone know which way the seals (water and oil seals) should face? Should the spring side be facing the impeller side or not? Do they both face the same way? thanks
If you can see the springs, then I wonder if you have complete seals! Both sides of of the seal should be enclosed in brass, and the center should be rubber...

I suppose that you could have older seals... the ones that I removed were NOT enclosed in brass.

If I recall correctly, on my old seals the springs were exposed to the weep holes once they were seated in the pump.

Therefore, when inserting the seal, one spring, the one on the water seal, faced out, and the other, for the oil seal, would have faced in.

I hope this helps!
 

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Friggin Pump...

I've put about 30 hours on the engine since the pump rebuild. Realize that this is a new-to-me boat, and I just started a job, so my sailing time has limited. Also, it's a sailboat;)...

I noticed that the crankshaft oil-seal on the M25 was leaking, and spraying a fine mist of oil around the engine compartment. After every 3 hours, or so, I found what I initially thought was V-belt dust. When I wiped it up, however it smudged - thus cluing me in that it was a liquid....

Anyway, I pulled the oil seal - once I figured out that the seal is made of a metal ring embedded in the rubber (which took me about an hour to figure out:hammer), and inserted the new one (hint- even though it looks like it is only rubber, you cannot deform it by squeezing it with your fingers - thus it must have something rigid inside of it!:eek:). Then, I started the engine to check my work. No leaking oil! No spray! No specks on the engine mounting platform! Looks good!!!:):)

... Wait a minuite, where did that drip come from?:confused:... There's another! Another, and another! It COULDN't be the raw water pump, I just rebuilt it!...

Clear as day, water was dripping out of the lower weep hole, and splattering on the engine block, the new engine mount (I no longer wonder why the PO replaced it), the oil pan - right where there is that rusty spot...:mad: Rate of about 1 drop / 2 seconds.

I guess that the pump housing is shot, and the water is making it's way around the seals... Or, and this thought is just occurring to me, there may be a restriction down stream (H/X or exhaust elbow) that is causing back pressure, forcing water to escape through the seal.

Would any of you like to share your experience with the Universal M series of engines, or hazard a guess?

I will look into it, but I suspect that a new pump is in my future :mad:.
 
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Two many boats!
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Well, I too have a leak from said pump but I know why........... There are two rubber seals that get pressed in and the first needed to be oriented the other way around but I didn't think of it until after I reassembled my pump! So it has been dripping away (not too bad ) and I will fix it when I take the pump off later this month. Could you also have put the first seal in backwards?

Just a thought

Josh
 

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degreeoff,

Thanks for the thought, but that is not the case... I had another exchange with someone on the same topic. I am sure that the seals are in in the correct direction.

Yesterday, I took her out for a couple of hours. While someone else was at the helm, I rechecked the engine, and in particular the water pump. I did not see a drop of water, nor signs of a leak in the time that I spent looking at the engine. I ran it at different RPMs, and everything was tight for over 15 min...

Because I did not look at the leak after the engine had come up to temperature, I'm more than a little puzzled.:confused:..

I have a hypothesis though; I wonder if the water gets between the seals (Number 8 in the illustration above) and the graphite bearing (Number 12) when the engine is cool. After starting the engine, heat causes the shaft (Number 6) to expand and the shaft and graphite bearing close the gap. A few teaspoons of water are now trapped between the end of the bearing and the seal, and this water is heated as the now warm, shaft is in contact with it. Because the ingress hole, between the bearing and the shaft, is now sealed, water has nowhere else to escape but between the shaft and the rubber seal. Thus my elusive leak through the weep hole. Put another way, it is supposed to leak BRIEFLY.

Comments?
 

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Update

Because I am currently in Ft Myers, and I had a client call in Tampa, I stopped in at Depco Pump on my way. For those of you in the Tampa / Clearwater / area, it is a GREAT resource. I bought a new N202M-15 pump for $200...

Because of the drip mentioned in my previous post, I was concerned about the potential for creating new problems. While I believe that I did a good job on the rebuild, it cost me $178 in parts, plus time.

Let me recap: $178 in parts, plus time to rebuild, or $200 for a new pump...:rolleyes:

Let me suggest to all of you that you simply BUY A NEW PUMP if you have a problem.
 
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The full article about the pump rebuild with the allen wrench cut off clearly states that the two seals should have the writing on the seals facing each other.

Many of our C34 guys have done this successfully, and I'm in the process of doing it right now.

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,6766.0.html

I'm going to (try to) get the seals out today with the allen idea, and appreciate the input about using a nail instead it that doesn't work. Usually, Ron Hill's advice is worth its weight in gold, so I don't know why the allen wrench didn't work for you. Did you possibly score the pump housing?

The last time I faced this issue was in 1999, and I bought a new pump. If I can get the seals out, it'd be a LOT less expensive than to buy a new pump, since I have th seals and the bushing is in fine shape.

Our local dealer says pressing them out and pressing new ones in costs more in labor than buying a new pump.

We'll just have to see about that, but i understand the logic, having been there once before.
 

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DONE

Successfully.

The "NAIL" IDEA also helped.

Folks, I thought I'd buy the new pump on Tuesday.

Fixing it myself for a Sunday afternoon worth of effort was well worth it.

Whaddya got to lose?

If you go to the link I posted above to the C34 website, I've posted the results.
 

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For those considering replacing their Oberdorfer 202 model water pumps, Moyer Marine makes a '501' pump that easily replaces the Oberdorfer 202 and eliminates the grease cap on some of the Oberdorfer models.
Moyer Marine Atomic 4 Engine Rebuilding and Parts
No affiliation other then being a happy customer. Not cheap but what is?
 

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Stu - I see that you have the "old-style" impeller cover. As the pump wears, it will score the cover. One of the benefits of the newer style, is that you can flip the cover over, and reinstall the cover...

Again - my last point is that the savings of $20 and having to pull the pump apart (I did the major overhaul and replaced the carbon bearings/bushings), and reassemble, simply wasn't worth it for me to do this again. YMMV. ;)
 

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I understand. Thanks again for the timely input which was a great help to me in my work yesterday. That "nail trick" was priceless. :laugher

Having "been there, done that" I sanded the inside of the faceplate before installing it. Yes, there is an advantage to having the ability of flipping the faceplate on the N pump, but my solution is simple: I have a backup faceplate.
 

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... and I have a backup PUMP!:p:D
 

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Actually Stu, your picture shows what I found most difficult about replacing the seals..


That carbon bearing, the black circle through which the Allen wrench is passing, will likely get trashed in the process.
Looking at your pic, I suspect that your bearing may be damaged...
 

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I have a backup pump, too!

The carbon bushing is just fine. I checked both ends, and only the inner end is an issue anyway. It's essentially only a sleeve, so unless it's worn or actually cracked and broken, it ain't goin' anywhere and will support the shaft. I was very careful and actually used your idea for the nail for the inner seal.
 

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I've added a picture of the inside engine end of the pump shaft connection to my rebuild article linked earlier in this thread. See reply #27.
 

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Stu - Not meaning any offense, but; What is that crud on your timing case cover?:eek:
:eek:
 

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None taken. You nailed it, it's crud. Seemed that the pump/engine gasket might have been leaking a tad, so the engine started to go all crud-dy on me. When the OEM pump started to go back in 1998 or 9, that whole section of the engine started to get rusted out. I painted it with Rustoleum gray primer, never did get to paint it in the Universal Bronze (have a can) also understand that GM Camel (#286) also works. As you can see from other pictures in that link, it's time to paint again.

It's truly amazing how salt water can "migrate" around.

A friend wrote this on our C34 Board:

When we first posted it the #286 GM Camel paint was available at Track auto stores (1998?). When Track was bought up, I guess that the metallic copper paint went with the buyout? Just look for some metallic copper auto paint.
BTW, the front of the accessory end of the engine (Oberdoffer/Sherwood and the internal water pump is mounted to) is an aluminum alloy!! The bell housing is also an aluminum alloy. The Hurth transmission body is also an aluminum alloy. The only part of the engine that can rust is the cast iron Kubota block and the steel oil pan.!
Don't get me wrong, because aluminum alloy will corrode somewhat if salt water stays on it. I have never painted my new injectors, because salt water should never get up that high. To preclude the chipping of paint you can also get the same protection from BO Shield (waxy) spray.
 

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Going to re-activate this thread!

Rebuilt my OBD pump a few years ago. "Time to change the impeller" me thinks!

Noooo Problemo! Out with the old it; was still good but lost it's "spring" and the vanes were not coming back to straight. So we put the new one in. It's a globe "run dry" I also have a OEM spare. So get all together. it won't prime. Just like 3 yrs ago when I tried the Globe impeller! ARRRG Put the good OEM impeller in.. and it pumps! go figure the globe blue run dry looks identical in every way. but it won't prime and pump.

Looks like OBD pump impellers are going for over $30 now. just amazing what things cost for "marine" applications.

How could an impeller that's identical not work? My only guess is it's too soft? :confused:

yes, have the thin OEM paper gasket, no it doesn't drip water, seals are still good.
 

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Did a search on sailboat owners and Maine Sail's Musing, Seems the Globe impellers are a problem. So I'll order another spare from Moyer or one of the others. Defender is $37 actually more then Moyer's at $33
 

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D- Before you replace the impeller, you can coat it with dish soap and it will prime.
 
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