SailNet Community banner

1 - 20 of 33 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I've been reading this forum since I've been looking for a boat, then, after getting my 1st sailboat, a 1976 C&C24, and now, that repairs are needed much earlier that I'd like, I thought I would tap into this source of knowledge with questions.
When my skipper ran the boat into an underwater ledge, we didn't feel a shock or a stop, just heard a big noise, and the boat started taking water. Once pulled away from the ledge it sank in a minute :-( It's been salvaged a few days ago and I wonder if it can be fixed. The hull broke around the keel stub (1st picture, of the front of the keel) but the deck and mast and everything else is in such a good shape (plus, I ended up loving this boat so much...). Is there a way to restore the seaworthiness of the hull, so that it holds the weight of the keel, remains water tight and maintains the whole structure of the boat ?
More questions arose when I looked at the boat / (wreck...) on its stands. It looks like the keel had been fixed before, like if fiberglass had been added inside the hull (2d and 3d picture of the keel bolts compartment under the floor of the cabin) ; does this look to you like this boat ran aground before, that the hull was patched with fiber glass cloth and other stuff ?
And this brings me to the 1st question : is any repair possible now, of this broken hull, that would make the boat safe ?
Thank you for any input !
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
277 Posts
Wow, this may get the repair thread of the year. The keel is not realy suported by the skin of the hull, but rather the grid build into the whole bottom of the boat. The fact that it failed is really an eye opener. My guess is to make it truly safe you will exceed the value of a 36 year old boat by a large margin. If you are commited to this boat get an experienced person on site to look at it. Any advice you get on the net, including mine, is not reliable enought to trust your safety.
 

·
Senior Moment Member
Joined
·
13,282 Posts
It looks like a writeoff to me. Unless that boat has enormous sentimental value, get another boat. An old C&C 24 is worth less than the materials needed to fix that damage, never mind any labour (of which there will be LOTS).

Strip it of all useful gear for resale and scrap it.

Sorry.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
32 Posts
Sorry but that looks terminal to me, even with all the will in the world and free labour it would still cost more in materials to repair and make safe then buying another similar boat of younger years.
 

·
Learning the HARD way...
Joined
·
7,183 Posts
From your pictures, and this perspective; yes, it looks like this was poorly patched before.

Can it be fixed? Yes - all it will cost is time and money. It will take lots of both.

I believe the stated message in the previous posts, is that you could buy another C&C 24, in better shape, for less than the costs involved in properly repairing this one.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mainer24 and rugosa

·
Registered
Joined
·
578 Posts
Unless your insurance is covering the WHOLE cost, strip it, scrap it and find another boat. Spars, sails, winches, toe rails, hardware, rudder all have value if you are inclined to salvage them. The previous repair looks questionable, and you definitely hit hard:( Did your surveyor comment about the previous repair?
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
649 Posts
Scrap lead pays about $1 a lb these days
 
  • Like
Reactions: mainer24

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,103 Posts
When my skipper ran the boat into an underwater ledge, we didn't feel a shock or a stop, just heard a big noise, and the boat started taking water. Once pulled away from the ledge it sank in a minute :-( It's been salvaged a few days ago and I wonder if it can be fixed.!
Were you on the boat when it hit?
How fast were you going?
I'm surprised you didn't feel it more. What exactly did it feel like.

Would you mind sharing the salvage story?
I'm having a hard time visualizing it.

As far as what to do with the boat the process is pretty straight forward. Get someone over who is well respected and ask how much it is going to cost. During that discussion you will find out how many days it will take. If you plan on doing it yourself pick some whole number greater than one and multiply it by the professional number and you will have an idea.

The cost of Epoxy and fiberglass can add up even if you do the work yourself but usually it's days, tools, weather and dust control that makes this kind of job hard for first-timers.
But we don't know what your skills and background are but this is serious work.
Do you have insurance? If so they will pretty much control the ball.

I'm interested in more detail about the event.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mainer24

·
Dirt Free
Joined
·
2,654 Posts
That not a "previous repair". that is a blatant cover up job. The seller and the surveyor should be prosecuted.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mainer24

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Thank you all for your advice ! what looks clear now is that spending the winter fixing it is not an option anymore. I haven't worked with epoxy/fiber glass before and I underestimate probably how messy that can be (was just reading that fg dust is toxic, prob for the same reasons asbestos is). Security is also important as I usually take friends, friend's relatives etc on board and I would feel terrible if anything happened because of a bad boat (even worse if I had "fixed" it). I've learned my lesson : it can look very good from the outside but be dangerous nevertheless. I realize too that age matters (for these boats at least) ; the next one won't be older than me ! Thank you for the idea of stripping it, too. I had thought of the sails and sheets but would have forgotten the winches, blocks, pulleys,... and other metal parts. The boat hasn't been surveyed by the insurance yet ; I guess they will "total" it, which is why I was wondering if buying it back was worth it.
As for the details of the accident, that's how it happened : the wind had died on us so we were motoring back to the harbor (4 hp, 2-stroke motor, we were probably running at 15 mph max). I left the tiler to my skipper and went on the bow to fold the jib. He didn't pay attention to a red buoy that we should have kept on our starboard side and took a "shortcut" in front of it. We heard a big "boom" but were not shaken at all : where I was standing, I did not fall overboard. The boat ended up stuck on the ledge and the waves were rocking it pretty badly ; we were afraid that the wave would fill the cockpit but instead, water started coming in from the keel bolts compartment. Long story short, the USCG could get to us after the tide went back up and when they towed the boat of the ledge it sank. For the salvage story, we had a diver finding the wreck, first on its depth finder, then by actually diving (40 feet deep, boat was lying on its side) and rigging the boat, for the barge that came next to lift it up and bring it back to shore. I am borrowing a picture from the diver to answer the questions about the salvage...
Thank you again for your wise comments !
 

Attachments

·
Learning the HARD way...
Joined
·
7,183 Posts
15 MPH with a 4HP Outboard? - I'd believe 5 knots (about 6 MPH) but that's it.

Try to save the motor!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
277 Posts
You are one lucky sailor. These sites are full of stories of people who have close calls, yours is a more compelling situation by far.

As to salvage, Unless you plan to build your new boat, The value of all the parts taken off the boat may be limited. You have to look at the cost to buy it back from the insurance verses what you can get selling the stuff on Craig's list and to a scrap metal dealer. You also have to dispose of the whole waterlogged hull and deck. It is semi toxic non recyclable plastic waste, in my environemtaly conscious area the cost to to get rid of it would be high. You also have to figure in the storage costs and your time. I am not saying I know it is not worth it, but I would research it first. In the end it may be best to let you insurgence company deal with the wreck.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
578 Posts
You are one lucky sailor. These sites are full of stories of people who have close calls, yours is a more compelling situation by far.

As to salvage, Unless you plan to build your new boat, The value of all the parts taken off the boat may be limited. You have to look at the cost to buy it back from the insurance verses what you can get selling the stuff on Craig's list and to a scrap metal dealer. You also have to dispose of the whole waterlogged hull and deck. It is semi toxic non recyclable plastic waste, in my environemtaly conscious area the cost to to get rid of it would be high. You also have to figure in the storage costs and your time. I am not saying I know it is not worth it, but I would research it first. In the end it may be best to let you insurgence company deal with the wreck.
Good point. I had forgotten about disposal dilema.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
895 Posts
This will be an interesting story to follow. They scrapped out the boat that sunk in my slip while my boat was on the hard a few weeks ago. One day with a Sawzall and a demolition blade and it fit into a rolloff garbage container. The keel was cast iron, they got like $300 for it.

As bad as it looks, one of the amazing things about fiberglass is how it can be repaired. I just got done doing my keel trunk on my Etap. I also did a similar repair on a 1976 Hunter 27. Was it worth it? SHOOT ME if I even think about doing it again!

Gary H. Lucas
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,103 Posts
As for the details of the accident, that's how it happened : The boat ended up stuck on the ledge and the waves were rocking it pretty badly
Thank you again for your wise comments !
Thanks for the story and we all feel you pain.
Good luck with your next boat. Don't give up.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,103 Posts
You have already decided against repair but just in case you are tempted their is another issue.
After repair it will have a salvage title and getting insurance again for you or anyone else may not be possible.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
I did save the motor and brought it immediately to a pro - had been told that if it was washed in fresh water and winterized immediately there was a chance to save it even after a week in sea water. Good point about the impossibility to insure a fixed-at-home boat (so many things i wouldn't have thought about ; thanks !) ; and how we'll dispose of the wreck is still a mystery to me ; around here environment is a big thing. Just disposing of the mix of gasoline/sea water recovered from the boat is difficult... I can't imagine hundred of pounds of fiberglass, lead, all this coated with toxic bottom paint !
 

·
Senior Smart Aleck
Joined
·
2,152 Posts
... I've learned my lesson : it can look very good from the outside but be dangerous nevertheless. I realize too that age matters (for these boats at least)...
I am curious - what did the age of the boat have to do with this mishap?

Are you better off driving a new boat up on the rocks?:)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
I am curious - what did the age of the boat have to do with this mishap?

Are you better off driving a new boat up on the rocks?:)
Thank you for bringing some humor in. What I meant is that, I guess, the older the boat (on these small budget sail boats), the higher the probability of hidden cracks, weird repairs, etc... that makes them less resilient in case something bad happens ? It's just my guess and from what I've seen when looking around for a boat. And these boats don't come with a "carfax" about their history...
 
1 - 20 of 33 Posts
Top