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Discussion Starter #1
I have a 12 year old Bene 331 and I'm looking to replace all the head hoses over the winter. Wondering who has had experience with this and more specifically:
- Has anyone done a system with rigid PVC/ABS and flexible couplers?
- Is there any downside to completely removing the Y-valve for overboard direct discharge (I'm on the great lakes so will never use this option).

thanks,
David
 

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Getting rid of the Y valve makes sense in your case, simplifies things.

I know SNer 'erps' has much of his head plumbing in hard plastic pipe.. it put a total end to any odor permutation, maybe he'll chime in, or you can send him a PM once you get up to 10 posts (you've been here 3 1/2 years... what's keeping you? ;))

It's always interesting running 'all new' plumbing in a liner-heavy interior..
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks for the quick reply- I'm sure this project will elicit much swearing and frustration before its done, but I'm hoping to simplify things as much as I can. I'm sure once I pull the holding tank out the limitations and possibilities will become more apparent.
 

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I asked a similar question a few months ago. I wound up buying the conventional wisdom and using the black Triton "green stripe" hose. I haven't actually done the work, though. Rebuilding the head had me deciding to wait until cooler/cold weather to do the work. I'll see if I can find the thread, because there were positive and negative comments about PVC.
 

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... deciding to wait until cooler/cold weather to do the work. I'll see if I can find the thread, because there were positive and negative comments about PVC.
Warm the inside of the boat! Working with sanitation hose (even the rubber ones) in the cold is a drag. Perhaps you will wish it had been a summer project!

And perhaps there are some tips here that will help:
Sail Delmarva: The Easy Button
 

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I sailed on a friend's Bene 311 this past summer. I don't remember much about the head, except that it was at the base of the companionway steps.

I replaced most of the black water hoses in my O'day 35 last spring. I suggest that this IS a project for cooler temps, as it keeps the "bouquet" to a minimum...

My boat was equipped with a VacuFlush head, which I have grown to love. It was plumbed with Dometic's flexible hose, which was not that great, nor was it worth what the P.O. paid.

I used 1½ schedule 80 (S80) PVC for any straight runs, and used Trident 102 (white) for anywhere that the hose needed to go through a bulkhead. To connect the S80 to the T102, I used off the shelf 1½ PVC connectors, PVC Primer, and PVC Cement from the local big box store.

The trick when connecting PVC pipe to flexible hose is to use off the shelf PVC fittings WITH (and this tid-bit is worth $$$) the Sealand 307341513 Custom Hose Adapter and double hose clamps.

This is a non-ribbed barb adapter which allows for 1½ PVC fittings to be used with 1½ flexible hose. These sell for about $3.50 each, and they are worth every cent.
 

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Replaced all my waste hoses with ABS pipe with only a few inches of hose to make connections at valves, heads and tank. Almost 20 years now and never a leak or an odor.
 

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If you use PVC, terminate each end with a section of hose. I think this will help keep any flexing from breaking the PVC.
 

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... The trick when connecting PVC pipe to flexible hose is to use off the shelf PVC fittings WITH (and this tid-bit is worth $$$) the Sealand 307341513 Custom Hose Adapter and double hose clamps.

This is a non-ribbed barb adapter which allows for 1½ PVC fittings to be used with 1½ flexible hose. These sell for about $3.50 each, and they are worth every cent.
My understanding (based upon my boat and manufacturer specs) is that the smooth fittings are for those who intend to use white sanitation hose, which in the opinion of most, is a mistake. Standard 1 1/2" barbed fittings are more suitable for Trident and Rartitan hoses and will hold more pressure. I believe using a smooth fitting on a below water line through hull does not meet code. Hose clamps are most effective when they can rest between barbs and smooth fittings lack these. I've installed all types of hose on both smooth and barbed fittings.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Wow a lot of great info. Seems to be a popular topic, but I've realized being a boat owner means becoming (if reluctantly) a sanitation expert, among other things.

Boatpoker, you mentioned you used ABS, which seems to be more common here in Canada. I'm assuming there is really not much difference in performance between sanitation grade rigid ABS and the schedule 80 PVC (Schedule 40 seems to be thinner). Any advantages/disadvantages I'm not aware of? I'm assuming I could find PVC but might have to hunt for it as the local hardware stores seem to only stock the thinner stuff for vacuum tubing.

Another thing is I'm planning on getting a new holding tank from Beneteau and will have them install the ports for fittings. Was thinking of upsizing the stock vent port from 5/8 to 1".. will have to also replace the thru hull in the side of the boat for the larger opening, which I'm a bit wary of, but its above the waterline and from what I've read a larger vent is the way to go (not a lot of option for cross ventilation on my boat). Anyone have any experience with doing this or advice on whether this is worth the hassle?
 

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My understanding (based upon my boat and manufacturer specs) is that the smooth fittings are for those who intend to use white sanitation hose, which in the opinion of most, is a mistake. Standard 1 1/2" barbed fittings are more suitable for Trident and Rartitan hoses and will hold more pressure. I believe using a smooth fitting on a below water line through hull does not meet code. Hose clamps are most effective when they can rest between barbs and smooth fittings lack these. I've installed all types of hose on both smooth and barbed fittings.
What do you mean when you say white versus black? I don't think there is a distinction to be made based on color alone - Trident Sani Shield comes in both...
 

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Oh, what a lovely subject!

I would hesitate to use plastic fittings, ABS in particular. ABS becomes brittle with time.

There has not been many comments on removeing the Y-valve. OK, understand that you do not intend to use it for emptying the holding tank. But you could have some use for it in and emergency or service. Holding tank problems are not very tempting!

/J
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Hi Jaramaz,

I currently have two ways to discharge (IF for some "emergency" reason I had to..), direct from the head, bypassing the holding tank (courtesy of Y-valve), or from the tank using the macerator. My plan would be just to hook the macerator line right to the discharge thru hull and forget about having a direct from the head discharge option.
 

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My understanding (based upon my boat and manufacturer specs) is that the smooth fittings are for those who intend to use white sanitation hose, which in the opinion of most, is a mistake. Standard 1 1/2" barbed fittings are more suitable for Trident and Rartitan hoses and will hold more pressure. I believe using a smooth fitting on a below water line through hull does not meet code. Hose clamps are most effective when they can rest between barbs and smooth fittings lack these. I've installed all types of hose on both smooth and barbed fittings.
The fittings don't care what color hose they are used with. Trident 101 & 102 are smooth on both the inside diameter and outside diameter, similar to the Dometic flexible PVC.



But, by all means; use barbed fittings if you wish, and if you can find them for 1½" fittings... Knock yourself out... :D Also feel free to hire me if you need help...

FWIW - I have not used these for through hull water connections below the waterline, but I have used them extensively with my VacuFlush system.
 

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GREETINGS EARTHLINGS ; When you have factored in how much pipe you need and have positioned it into place, are about to fix it to the reciver remember to warm both the pipe and the part it's going to fit on too, have some washing up liquid. (gloves to stop the heat tranfer to your hands) AS ALWAYS GO SAFE
 

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One common cause of head hoses permeating is the way they are run. The vents are in the holding tank to create an aerobic (oxygen rich) atmosphere. This will not smell, just as the open sewage treatment tanks do not smell. If the atmosphere is anaerobic (without oxygen) it will stink. Hoses from the head should go uphill and then the drop into the tank should be vertical if possible to prevent standing waste in the hose. Too many installations have long, often too long horizontal hose runs and a slight dip will create a "P" trap in the hose where waste can sit. There should be 2 vents, one each side of the boat for crossflow ventilation if possible, and of sufficient size.

Many stop flushing just after the bowl is empty - the hose should always be cleared of waste.


Y valves can and should be eliminated wherever possible. Each Y valve adds 3 connections that can leak and complicate the plumbing runs. They also add some restriction - the 1 1/2" hose becomes 1 1/4" through the valve. If everything goes into the holding tank the tank contents will have less of a chance to solidify as in a seldom used tank. The deck pumpout should be with a dip tube (Sealand makes universal dip tubes) and the overboard run from a separate tank connection through the macerator to the seacock. Simple is always better.
 

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Haven't read all the replies so this may be redundant, but don't use hardware store 1.5 inch barbed fittings. They are too large for the standard white sanitary hose. You'll go nuts trying to fit them and you won't get a good connection. Get the barb-less fittings that marine stores sell and use 2 hose clamps.
John V.
 

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What do you mean when you say white versus black? I don't think there is a distinction to be made based on color alone - Trident Sani Shield comes in both...
That was sloppy writing on my part.

I was implying that "white" hose was the common white vinyl sanitation hose (Shields 148 and similar). Trident 101/102 are the same hose in different colors. This product is in NO WAY similar to white vinyl hoses, having spent years working with both.
 
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