SailNet Community banner
  • SailNet is a forum community dedicated to Sailing enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about sailing, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, repairs, reviews, maintenance, and more!

Retiring Army

5K views 27 replies 12 participants last post by  glossa 
#1 ·
I'm retiring after a 31 year career in the Army in about 2 years. The Army has been very good to me and I have seen a lot of the world. Our plan is for our family of 5 to live aboard a monohull or catamaran full time and continue to explore and live life. We enjoy tent camping and due to my career in reconnaissance, I am very comfortable with very little. My family, however, prefer a little more comfort than I require. I have freshwater sailing experience and am currently taking courses through NauticEd to prepare for our move to a new lifestyle. Our budget puts us at about 200k for the boat and our piece of string will be based on my pension. I am looking for advice on how to find a boat that works for us, and what the process is like to buy and outfit, plus any other advice i can get. I dont plan on seriously shopping until after I start my retirement leave, so I've got some time. We are in the planning phase of this, if that helps frame my interest.
 
#2 ·
Sounds fun. A family of 5 is a big crew. I would highly recommend taking the entire family on a bareboat charter. That would immediately give you a lot of perspective on how the rest of the crew may handle the experience of living full time on a boat. As well as give you an idea of size requirements. The age of your kids is a big factor. Also, have you watched any sailing video channels on Youtube? There are lots of those, and may provide some insight. Good luck. Take your time. There is a lot of moving parts. Im planning on casting off in a year. But its just me and my wife. Cant imagine 3 kids.
 
#3 ·
Time to read. Lots. Don't know how far afield you may intend to go, but Steve Dashew's "Circumnavigators Handbook" provides a lot of things to think about and explains why they made the choices they did. Technological developments have altered the situation on some issues - autopilots and charts come to mind - but the basics haven't changed.
 
#4 ·
Ok.

1) Did the family ever had an extensive experience of sailing? For how long? Was it for 3h or for say 1 week of living on a boat? It might help making really sure they are really ready for that. CrispyCringle recommended to take the family on a charter boat. That would be a good idea. Before taking any expanses for the project, make sure that the family knows what sailing life is. There are more than a few that come back home after only about a month on the ocean, as they realized they were sea sick, and not really enjoying their trip, or unprepared, or just not confortable leaving behind them the loved ones, or that really they took the wrong boat for what they planned.

2) There are many options in that price range. To help narrow down your choices, try to figure out what you want to look for. Some sailboats have spade rudders. Other have full keels. There are also skegs, and boats with centerboards, lifting keels... Ketch? Cutter? Sloop? Any preference? How old the boat? 10-20 years? 40 years? What accommodations? Steel? Plastic? Aluminium? If there are teak decks, are you ok with that?

3) I'd say the age of the children REALLY matters. More than 45 ft if you and your wife are the only ones really apt to manage the boat might prove really hard (if you also have to manage the kids at the same time).

4) Shopping area?

5) Keep in mind to spare at least some 20k-30k for refurbishing. Sails, engine, adding water and holding tank capacity (especially if you have to make alterations to the boat in order to add to the water + holding tanks capacity) may be expansive.

6) Read about the challenges you may be confronted to. There are plently of good readings on the web, or books about sea life.

With some answers to these questions, we may be better at helping you.

Ina
 
#5 ·
Great points! I appreciate everyones feed back. Let me give some better detail in the same order you laid out...

1) My wife has done some sailing with me, but no overnighter. We are going to take the kids out this summer for a day or two on a friend's boat off the east coast in the US. Definitely a long day sail and maybe spend the night on the boat depending on how everyone does. I had the same thoughts and want to get everyone out on the water for some "sea trials" before start spending real money. This will include extended time on monos and cats to make sure everyone is trained and we are moving onto the right boat.

2) I prefer monohull but the wife prefers cats, due to less heeling and space. While I am not dead set on my preferred mono, I have always thought ketches were super cool, but I recognize probably won't work for our family. Honestly, we are open to the type of boat based on what we find works best for us as we start putting the fam on the water and see how different types and sizes "feel" to us. We have 2 years to really answer this and want to take our time so we get it right.

3) The kids ages will be 20, 16, and 14 when we intend to hit the water in 2 years. They already understand they will be crew and are eager to learn and excited about the new lifestyle.

4) Shopping area will likely be anywhere along the east coast of the US and the gulf, but we are willing to travel for the right boat.

5) Great point on the refit-after-purchase costs. I'm trying to figure some of that into the cost of the boat. I'll probably gain a better understanding this summer as we get the family out to start window shopping to help educate me on the economics of it and the kids on types and sizes of boats. We definitely want to make sure we have plenty of solar, and tankage. While we are not dedicated to being off the grid, after my career I appreciate the ability to be self sufficient.

6) Been doing lots of reading and plenty of YouTube watching to gain understanding. This has pretty much been our evening TV for everyone for about the last year and a half and most of what we read is research based for the eventual launch.
 
#11 ·
Some questions and thougnts. Do you intend to work or just live off savings and retirement? Health insurance? Especially if you will leave the US and don't have access to VA hospitals. Where do you plan to sail? Living aboard is easier in warmer places. But summers in places like Florida in the summer can be unpleasant. You will need to think about schooling for the two younger kids.
 
#16 ·
Great points and great questions! I plan to work as little as possible on anything other than the boat, to be honest. The plan is to maximize pension and savings. However, I'm not opposed to some form of employment or paid consulting. We are just starting to look into health insurance. Our plan is to stay along the East coast of the US for the first year, potentially including the Caribbean. We intend to be relatively migratory based on weather and temps, but we will see how that works out. As for schooling, we plan to continue homeschool the younger two.
 
#12 ·
So far, I can think of Gozzard, semi-custom vessels that are really well done. They will be confortable, secure, and don't have so big keels. They are built in Canada. Ted Gozzard is a designer with extensive experience that has done well with what he built. It's a skeg boat.

I also have thought about the Island Packet, that can be practical for island hoping and finding safe harbors at sea, because of their keels. The keel is integral, however not often made of lead (it is optional), which is a drawback in my view. Boat's cored with Polycore, proprietary to Island Packet. The stability of these boats is good, and these boats are fairly stiff. They really have a practical and functional design. Also, they answer questions quickly, which is a plus, and really care about their customers. They tend to keep their value well over the years, and their customers are loyal.

I'll add some more in the coming days, just wanted to point out those two for now.
 
#14 ·
#17 ·
We normally spend a lit of time outside the USA. Inside we have Medicare. For outside we got an international health care of $2M aggregate cap for very roughly $3,000/year for 2. Luckily we have not used it yet. It is worldwide EXCLUDING the USA.
 
#18 ·
For the east coast, you certainly could go north for the summer and south for the winter. Lots to explore in New England and Chessie in warm weather. Keys are still USA and its a pretty easy to hop to the Bahamas. Staying in the USA would make health insurance easier. I am guessing you are too young for Medicare, but you will have VA. Obamacare is an option.also, espeically if you qualify for a credit based on income. .
 
#19 · (Edited)
This could work out very well. For sure you need to do sea trials with the family...do it a number of times on different sized boats and a cat or two... poll the family about what they liked about each boat and what they didn't. it would be optimal to get on boats that not vanilla charter boats but have been upgraded so the crew sees what can be done. Keep watching the various sailing videos to gather more information.

Regardless of the boat be prepared for systems upgrades... not a bad thing... you will get to learn the boat intimately and that will be invaluable down the road.

US East coast... LIS / Southern NE which I am familiar with is rich with experiences... sailing, shore side activities, harbors, marinas / boat yards. I suspect children will need more stimulation than the boat alone provides so anchored in a tropical paradise may not be the best thing for the kids. They also thrive on social interactions and that is challenging living on the hook. Live aboard marinas are not all that common... but this might make sense for you at least for the near term. And then there is schooling. Can be done on board... must be!

Have you considered a transition... maintain a dirt residence and cruise in the sailing season and when the crew wants to live aboard full time... go for it. You might even realize that you need a different boat. Experience is the best teacher.

It's all possible.... when there is a will, there will be a way.... money helps!
 
#20 · (Edited)
Najad. Well, really good for the level of craftmanship. Everything feels robust, neat. Often seen in Europe, even more so in Northern Europe.

Fantasi. Might want to take a look at these. I do know there aren't many of these, but well... Type "Fantasi 44" on Yachtworld, you'll see a recent one (2002)... and I know it's a bit pricey for the boat, but they did do some earlier boats that can be had for a bit less, and look as good as this one.

Hinkley, Morris, the usual suspects. Often very pricey for the size that would be required, however. I can only see the Justine that would be in the price range, but that would be too small I guess for 5 people to have some confort.

I'll add some more.
 
#21 ·
Thanks! I appreciate all the boats you're mentioning. I have never heard of some of these brands and will research them. I'm looking across multiple pages at used boasts and finding a few that might work, but I'm still about 2 years out from purchase.
 
#23 · (Edited)
I will add the Cherubini 44, a ketch, cutter or sloop (depending on what the purchaser choosed) - a bit old by now (1980+), but really impressive under sail. Was semi-custom, can be found around 175k-250k with a little bit of negotiation. The displacement ratio is modern (under 200), you can find ketches of this model, this rig will allow numerous sail configuration. The interior space is decent. A bit of a wet ride if pushed too hard with the wind, but otherwise very impressive, especially when one consider the speed performance of that full (did I say full???) keel in lead.

Oh, did I mention the waterline? It has a LOA of 13.4 m for a LWL of 12.2 m. Really not what was mass produced at that time, and this should indicate sufficient space (ok, not built with thin and modern material, but still a 44'') and confort (it's not a hobby horse boat).

Plus these boats were still built in the 2000's (25 years of production run!)... So the design was really brilliant.

Look at Magic, the one at 259k, on Yachtworld, really beautiful inside, that sleeps six. The teak on board looks brand new and unworn (you could of course change that if you liked something else), the power is really good (a Mercedes 76hp, the maximum ever fitted to this boat), and I do believe it may even be the version 2 (I'm not sure though), that featured a couple of updates compared to the first version.

If you can find a Kaufman 47, it's the same boat that John Kretschmer owns. I see none for sale as of now. A really good value. He may give you some info about this boat, better than what I can say. I've not come across many of this brand.

Hylas 49, recent, aluminium. A review is available on the web. I know Hylas has a reputation for being a wet boat builder (because their yachts lie low on the water), but whether this is true for this particular model, I don't know.

Nautitech 47, catamaran. A good find, a good performer, average to a little under average space for the size, still a little faster than most of its size. It's recent, also. A review can be found on the web.

Alden 46, Bob Perry wrote a complete review of this one a couple of years ago. Looks a bit older, doesn't have 4 cabins but 3, and seems less confortable. Lots of teak to maintain. Is strong.

Bahia 46, by Fountaine Pajot. There more information to be found on the web. The reviewer clearly states he would consider it for bluewater cruising at the end.

Knysna 440. You can find a review on the web too.

I am still looking for other suggestions, but I think these would be suitable for your needs and requirements.
 
#24 · (Edited)
Leopard 45, 4 cabins (three for the children, 1 for you and the wife). I see one in Barbados on Yachtworld.

Stevens 47, 3 staterooms. Well-known and respected cruiser.

PS: I saw lots of boat for sale in tropical islands. I will tell you to beware that some of the sales in tropical islands are because of tropical storms. Sometimes, triple-checking with the owner and the picture will avoid the waste of time and unnecessary expanses of visiting a wreck.
 
#26 ·
Allures 40, or Allures 44. Innovative, fast, this is a recent boat worth the purchase price. Aluminium. A little more than what you intend to pay, but in 2 years, these could be had for perhaps 200-220k.

These are some of the boats I would care to give a look for...
 
#28 ·
I am also retired Army with an Armor / Cavalry background, and my family and I have been living aboard since 2012. We started on a Cal-29, then a Catalina 42, and now a 1999 Beneteau Oceanis 50 with 4 staterooms and separate crew cabin in the very front that we call the 'Hell Hole'. The B50 is more of a racer/cruiser and is not as stoutly built as some of the other suggestions, but they're plentiful and fast, and comfortable. It could circumnavigate but is better suited for coastal cruising to Mexico or the Gulf. It is well within your price range and there are many for sale on yachtworld. The downside to these middle-aged boats is that there are a LOT of systems that can potentially fail and there's really no Chilton's Manual, (or TM for that matter). I maintain a spreadsheet of every issue that I find, similar to a 2404 or 5988E. If you want something a little nicer and roomier, you could probably find a Jeanneau 54DS for under $200K. As soon as our kids are out of the house, we will downgrade to something smaller and more affordable to moor and maintain, easier to dock, and easier to singlehand. Now that I own a floating condo, I find myself wanting a day sailor that I can sail any time. The B50 is a hoot to sail and we do race it, but requires a lot more fuss compared to my 10 foot styrofoam Snark. Dollar for dollar, I get much more joy out of the Snark. It just seems like the larger the liveaboard, the more excuses not to leave the marina. I swear that the wifi cable holding us to the dock is harder to sever than our 3/8 anchor chain. A few pieces of advice:

1. I'm sure you're aware of the financial risk. Most of the 'forever boats' in our marina, never leave the Marina. Some will make it as far as Mexico and then will be sold when the crew decide that it's not for them. It's not unlike watching a salmon run. I wish there was away you could start out with a less costly option.
2. Don't assume that the surveyor will find every deficiency; IMO, they're generally looking for bigger items that affect the serviceability and value of the boat. I found dozens of annoying deficiencies not long after the survey that I'm still dealing with or learning to tolerate. They were there all along but love sometimes makes us blind to these things. So take the time to look through the boat yourself and flip every switch, pull every lever, note every last missing screw, just like a technical inspection on a Bradley.
3. Some surveyors will agree to perform a preliminary inspection of the boat for a smaller price, before you commit to the full survey, having the boat hauled, or entering a psa and putting down earnest money. Once you've paid for the survey, haul-out, and pressure wash, it's hard to walk away or negotiate on price. If you can id the main issues early on, you'll be less emotionally attached which is a good thing.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top