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Tundra Down
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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
Composite tanks are the ones I am building my propane locker for. They are light and corrosion isn't a problem. You can see the level of the propane in the tank. I have the mock up materials, the after market hatch and the tools set up in my shop. The weather has finally improved so I am spending my time on TD. The locker project will resume after the boats are on the hard. Ugh! The season is too short! I need a propane heater! Ha!

George
 

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Tundra Down
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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
Propane locker vent?

I am still working on a propane locker for our Islander-28. I am satisfied with the plan to this point. I have the option of venting the propane locker into the manual bilge pump discharge hose just before it exits the transom. I can simply install a T. I was planning to create a separate vent opening in the transom but why won't the manual pump's work? It will be at the proper level for venting the locker. The bilge pump hose loops up to just under the cockpit seat.

I can't think of a good reason to cut another hole with this one already available.

Any suggestions?

George
 

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It should have its own outlet for the vent. ABYC wouldn't allow a combined vent and I doubt any surveyor would either. There should be no connections except to the appliance (stove or heater) that are not in the vented locker. If you "T" it into the bilge pump hose that connection is outside of the locker. The outlet in the hull should not be near any other thru hulls but I'm not sure exactly how far away.
 

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It should have its own outlet for the vent. ABYC wouldn't allow a combined vent and I doubt any surveyor would either. There should be no connections except to the appliance (stove or heater) that are not in the vented locker. If you "T" it into the bilge pump hose that connection is outside of the locker. The outlet in the hull should not be near any other thru hulls but I'm not sure exactly how far away.
Ditto.

You've done all this work. No sense in taking shortcuts in the final stretch. Best to make it ABYC compliant. If you're insured, they'll require it that way.
 

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Cal 9.2 SilverSwan
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I installed a Seaward locker with "1" gallon tank, just had I refilled for a couple bucks. I converted from alcohol to propane Force 10 stove. The locker assemblies, tank, reg, solenoid, are on the market for around $400. If you make your own, insure good ventilation to outside the boat.
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
ABYC compliance is the determiner! I do have space to add another portal. Does anyone know if there is a minimum distance from any other portals for a propane vent?
 

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Tundra Down
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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
John,

I did find this in another post. I don't want to ID the post but am greatful.

My locker complies with all of this and adding a 1/2" id vent is not a huge issue if it can sit between and below the exhaust and the manual bilge pump portals.

I can't find any reg on locating the vent that references proximity to other portals.

1.8.1 Lockers used to contain LPG cylinders, cylinder valves, regulating equipment and safety devices shall be
designed to minimize the likelihood of use as a gear storage locker and shall be,
1.8.1.1 vapor tight to the hull interior, and
1.8.1.2 located above the waterline, and
1.8.1.3 constructed of, or lined with, corrosion resistant materials, and
1.8.1.4 shall open only from the top with
1.8.1.5 a gasketed cover that shall latch tightly, and
1.8.1.6 shall be capable of being quickly and conveniently opened without tools.
1.8.2 Installation
1.8.2.1 LPG lockers shall be installed so that the locker opens only directly to the outside atmosphere, and
1.8.2.2 If a LPG locker is installed inside a boat locker, the LPG locker shall be located as high and as close to the
boat locker's opening as possible in order to comply with
A-1.8.2.1.
1.8.3 When means of access to the LPG equipment locker or housing is open, the cylinder valves shall be
capable of being conveniently and quickly operated, and the system pressure gauge dials shall be fully visible.
1.8.4 Lockers shall be vented at the bottom by a dedicated vent, with a minimum diameter of any component in
the vent system that shall be not less than 1/2 inch (12.5 mm) inside diameter.
1.8.5 Locker vents shall be led outboard, without pockets, through the hull to a point lower than the locker bottom
and above the waterline with the boat in the static floating position.

NOTE: See
ABYC H-27 Seacocks, Thru-Hull Connections and Drain Plugs, for requirements for seacocks.

1.8.6 Locker vent openings shall be located at least 20 inches (508 mm) from any hull opening to the boat interior.
1.8.7 LPG lockers shall not be used for storage of any equipment other than LPG cylinders, cylinder valves,
regulating equipment, and LPG safety devices. See
A-1.8.1.
1.8.8 Storage provisions for unconnected reserve cylinders, filled or empty
 

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I can't find any reg on locating the vent that references proximity to other portals.
I don't have any knowledge about this point, and the ABYC guidance you quoted above doesn't seem to address this. It would probably be best to follow the ABYC guidance in every respect and then position the propane locker drain thru-hull as far from the engine exhaust outlet as feasible.

My preference would be to run the drain out through the transom (if doing so allowed a hose run that was compliant with the guidance). Ours is on the starboard quarter of the hull, and while technically compliant with the requirement to be above the static waterline, when we are very hard on the wind on port tack it can end-up submerged at times.
 

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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
I have considered both locations. I prefer the transom. It will be closer to the exhaust on the transom but below it.

I didn't see any reference to this in the regs either. The locker and its vent line will be on the opposite side of the hull from the exhaust hose. The vent's potential gas could not travel back up the exhaust. The possibility of a water cooled exhaust stream being capable of igniting anything seems remote. Since the gas that could vent is heavy it will spill off the transom. I am convinced. now, can I convince a surveyor. I can always locate it on the hull.
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
"at least 20 inches (508 mm) from any hull opening to the boat interior."

Low on the transom complies with this stipulation. I think. There are no openings to the boat's interior on my transom with the exception of the blower vents and they are up on the coaming, well above 20 inches from the proposed vent.
 

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1.8.6. above says 20" from any hull opening.
You're probably right. I interpreted "any hull opening to the boat interior" as reference to portlights, hatches, companionway, etc. But your interpretation is broader and probably the safer bet.

A surveyor could probably answer whether this requirements includes other thru-hull fittings.
 

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I've been trying to find the ABYC regs for propane on the web. You'd think if they want them followed they would let you see them without joining. 20" is the safe route I think though. Maine Sail will know because he is I believe a member of ABYC.
Edit
I have been searching the net and have read more about propane lockers in the last hour or so than I ever thought I would. I did find a copy of ABYC regs eventually and after reading them the only reference I found was the "20" from any hull opening" statement already posted.
 

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propane locker

Did you ever build your locker? I am thinking of one too (I realize your poat was a while ago). I have a hunter 33 not much room. Do you think I could mount outside?

I am building myself a propane locker for our Islander 28. I am a retired boat builder / composite engineer. I have an older Islander 28 that my wife and I sail along the Maine coast. We want to install a propane heater and convert the alcohol stove to propane. After considering several options I have decided to build a "drop-in" propane locker that will consume the aft 26 inches of the quarter birth. It will accommodate a pair of 5 pound fiberglass propane tanks, regulator and solenoid shutoff valve, be sealed from the interior of the boat and have an overboard drain. It will be installed in the starboard cockpit seat and will have a double hatch configuration that seals the locker from the weather and a second "internal" hatch that seals the propane compartment from everything else.

I am "retired" and enjoy designing and engineering "stuff". It occurs to me that there are many smaller, older, sail boats that suffer from the same lack of space the Islander 28 does for retrofitting a propane locker. I know we will not miss the full length of the quarter birth and I suspect that is true for many other owners.

I want this locker to be "drop in" and easily removable so if it is installed in a location that blocks access it will not create a permanent obstruction. The actual locker will be removable by disconnecting hoses, removing a few fasteners and and lifting it out through its exterior, flush cockpit seat hatch. As I considered this design's application to other small sail boats it occurred to me it might solve this same problem for others.

I am going to build it. I am going to build it as a fiberglass part that is ultimately produced from a mold. I want it to be a "finished" component and am wondering if I should build the molds to a standard that will allow me to produce more than the one I intend to install on Tundra Down.

Does this idea appeal to anyone else?

Thanks,

George
 

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Thank you for all the smart advice on this! I just bought an old 30 foot Silverton Cabin Cruiser to keep at a mooring near me. The previous owner had a micro wave oven on board and I prefer a gas stove for cooking. So I went out and bought a new 2 burner propane camp stove expecting to just install my BBQ propane gas tank in the tall cabinet next to the stove. Well to my surprise I was totally ignorant of the whole gas leaking possibility. I figured that I would just shut off the gas valve on top of the tank like I always do with my outside BBQ? I figured that by turning the valve off there would be no chance of any leaks? Isn't that correct? If the Propane Gas Tank Valve is in the OFF position how can there be any chance of a gas leak with the small rubber hose and regulator which is attached directly to the stove? I'm baffled? Any comments on this? I'd appreciate any input.
 

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Dirt Free
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I figured that by turning the valve off there would be no chance of any leaks? Isn't that correct? If the Propane Gas Tank Valve is in the OFF position how can there be any chance of a gas leak with the small rubber hose and regulator which is attached directly to the stove? I'm baffled? Any comments on this? I'd appreciate any input.
Suggest you ask your insurance company :)
 

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.... If the Propane Gas Tank Valve is in the OFF position how can there be any chance of a gas leak with the small rubber hose and regulator which is attached directly to the stove?
Not sure how relevant the answer is, if the system leaks, while you are using it.
 

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Barquito
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There is a huge list of the installation requirements for propane, earlier in this thread. However, you really only need to know two things. 1) Propane is heavier that air. 2) It is possible that the entire contents of the tank could leak out.

Here is an installation that had some incorrect assumptions:



That is a tank mounted in the cockpit! If is leaks, the gas will fill the cockpit like a bathtub, until it reaches the level of the companionway, where it will downflood into the cabin. Again, the cabin will fill like a bathtub until it reaches the lungs of your sleeping wife, kids, and dog.
 
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