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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Contest 36s

What I am not crazy about in this design.... not in order of importance.

1. While I like the aft cabin with its huge berth which can be slept on fore and aft or athwartship... I would really prefer a walk around stand up cabin for making the bed etc. As I only sleep there once asleep standing up is not an issue. But one person needs to get past another if two are sleeping in the aft cabin.

2. V berth is a bit high and done so to create stowage bins below and make it wider as lowering it would make the mattress smaller.

3. The mfg used a beige carpet applied to the hull in a few locations... the V berth, in the Salon above the lockers at the level of the ports, same in the galley. And again in the aft cabin. I haven't replaced it because I can't decide on what the material should be.

4. Boat came with a sink or maybe even a head at the entrance to / inside the aft cabin. Totally stupid idea... the galley sink is 4 feet away!. I removed the sink, made a hinged lid, left the counter top, attached a large box from below and keep misc hardware in plastic boxes there. It's very handy. I turned the plumbing into a salt water deck wash thru hull.. and used it for a water maker when I had one. Below the top is a cabinet for more tools and so forth.

5. Companionway key lock has been a PITA and so I simply don't use it except when I leave the boat for long periods. I need to replace or fix it... low priority.

6. Only a single drawer in the whole boat in the galley. However there are tons of lockers which means things are in bins inside the lockers.

7. Deck has a diamond pattern texture for non skid. I don't think it's terribly good.

8. Mfg supplied the boat with teak slats for the benches and the cockpit and shower sole. They were kinda thin and so I replaced them with grates or heavier slats. A huge aesthetic improvement.

9. Aluminum stanchion bases. They were changed to stainless steel

10. Fore deck is not large enough for a 10' RIB and for much of anything up there.

11. Because of high free board, fractional rig with mast forward and fin keel... boat yaws at anchor and on a mooring when the wind picks up above 10-12 knots. Above 18 knots I rig a riding sail to stop the yawing. PITA, but does the job.

12. Large main which now requires I use drill motor on winch for power assist to raise. Would benefit from a less track with less friction.


What I like or learned to like not in order of importance:

1. Raised flush deck... easy to move and work on

2. Quality fittings, hardware ports and hatches, line organizers, rope clutches etc.

3. Fractional rig w/ swept back spreaders. Tapered mast is deck stepped so there is no water coming into the boat via the mast. Large compression post integral with teak bulkhead. Very heavy rigging wire 10mm. All bulkheads are neatly tabbed to the hull.

4. functional stern boarding converts to swim ladder.

5. large 2 level anchor locker... chain drops forward and has a weep. Space on foredeck for windlass

6. slotted tow rail

7. Huge comfy dry cockpit. Coamings I can sit on. Wide benches several people can sleep on with backs high enough for support. Companionway dash for instruments - I have 7. Engine panel forward in recessed GRP box. Added the same recessed box to port side for AP control, windlass switches and KVH compass repeater switches. Folding teak table. Weems & Plath compass and Whitlock pedestal. Large lazarettes, a huge rope locker and propane locker where I store spare gas for the OB at back of cockpit. Large teak trimmed cubbies in the coaming for winch handles, hand shower, misc stuff. Wouldn't change a thing about this cockpit. It's where we are most of the time and it's very comfortable.

8. Headroom. Because of the raised deck mold the headroom is incredible. Volume below is huge in main cabin.

9. Gelcoat finished GRP head liners. Salon headliner includes conduits for running wires from the nav desk area to the mast. Easy to clean surface. Strong teak hand holds above the settees.

10. Dining table which can be expanded or lowered so that a double berth can be made on stbd.

11. lots of lockers... lots. All teak joinery with splatter painted interiors.

12. Beautiful varnished teak joinery. Looks like new 35 years on.

13. Settees which are comfy and useful for sea berths and include lee boards (all berths have lee boards)

14. Small ledge w/ fiddle behind the settee backs which are great places to keep small things handy.

15. Large U shaped galley w/ CL sink at the companionway. Galley includes a athwartship shelf aft and above sink next to companionway. This is so incredibly useful and handy. It holds a 2 gallon potable water dispenser and all manner of small things needed above and below... locks, tools, lotions, sun glasses etc. I modified the galley to include bins for glassware, spices, mugs... etc. and cut a lid door into the corner of the counter and installed a dish holder below. Galley is great for cooking underway and for passing food up to cockpit.

16. Wide strong companionway steps with hand hold. I added storage bins behind the steps to hold, horn, dog stuff, shackles, snatch blocks, flash light, flares, fire extinguisher and shoes live on top of the engine cover which forms the first 2 steps.

17. Nav desk with a large top (full chart) which opens for storage... tons of little things, tools, tape, heat shrink, rigging stuff, glue, ship's docs, eye glasses, drill bits. Too much stuff in there. Large locker below where all manner of bottled stuff lives, motor oil, anti freeze, cleaners.. lots of them, rags... spray bottles.

18. Book shelf with a portlight at the nav desk. Can see out to port and store lots of things in that shelf (with fiddle) - portable plotter, binocs, 18v batts, phone charging cables misc elec connectors. Love this shelf!

19. Forward walk thru head. Large great ventilation, lockers for hanging and one with shelves to port for towels and bed clothes +... small "medicine" cabs (2) to stbd with all sorts of bathroom stuff inside. Shelf above with a batten at the hull behind which more bottles live. Sink counter is high. No smells in this head ever. Changed the OEM head to a Groco Model K. Head is in the right place for me as I sleep aft and use the V for a walk in catch all closet for bags and so on. Head is on a platform and is too high... a step for one's dangling feet is needed.

20. Lots of lockers all over the place. Good except I end up hauling around too much stuff!

21. Engine Access. Great access to the front and top and rear... so so for the sides.

22. Bilge is dry except for a fresh water plumbing leaks or when a transducer is pulled. Hull is round and bulge is shallow. Pumps are in the bilge in the salon.

23. AGM Batteries are located aft of engine under the aft cabin berth. Did a major upgrade to electric... batts, wiring, fuses, busses, inverter, shunt... Convenient to work on.

24. Hot water heater under aft cabin berth

25. Fully skegged rudder and enclosed prop shaft which I feel are stronger and protected.

26. Easy to sail and balanced helm. Will sail close reach on her own.

Here's a link to the architect Dick Zaal's page for the 36s... Dick Zaal used some images of Shiva I sent to him. I did visit him and the factory in 1987 after I bought the boat. How cool is that!

Contest 36s | Dick Zaal Yachtdesign
 

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This is one of the best ideas for a thread in a long time. My concern is that it will be so full of good information that it will be difficult to search or wade through.

Maybe as it progresses, reviews of individual boats could be duplicated in a new forum titled "owner reviews" or similar, with boats listed by model or manufacturer? I know there is a manufacturer forum, but it would be useful to have reviews in one place instead of searching through manufacturers looking for a review.

This thread is also useful as a continuing one, with normal discussion, tangents, etc - so stopping it and moving it to another forum to prevent duplication isn't a good idea.

The unfortunate part of this thread is that contributing to it takes a good bit of thought, organization, and time. Hopefully, I will find some of that in the future and review our past two boats.

Mark
 

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bell ringer
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2001 Hunter 410, owner deep draft, slab reef version.

Ive have this boat 9 years and full time lived/cruised it the last 40 months and really like the boat. Its pretty fast, comfortable, easy to balance and handle. The main things beyond little silly “I wish .....” are:

- the aft bulkhead wall screws like to loosen and the overhead liber likes to flex in big following seas and those tome when the surge is pounding on the beam at anchor
- been trying for 9 years to get the freeze/frig seal to seal better so don't have to defrost the freezer so much

Sorry, but thats really all i have to complain about the boat.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
This is one of the best ideas for a thread in a long time. My concern is that it will be so full of good information that it will be difficult to search or wade through.

Maybe as it progresses, reviews of individual boats could be duplicated in a new forum titled "owner reviews" or similar, with boats listed by model or manufacturer? I know there is a manufacturer forum, but it would be useful to have reviews in one place instead of searching through manufacturers looking for a review.

This thread is also useful as a continuing one, with normal discussion, tangents, etc - so stopping it and moving it to another forum to prevent duplication isn't a good idea.

The unfortunate part of this thread is that contributing to it takes a good bit of thought, organization, and time. Hopefully, I will find some of that in the future and review our past two boats.

Mark
Thanks Mark... I struggled to think of a format and decided to simply list the designs features... things I like and those I don't. I don't have much to compare to unfortunately. But I do know this design very well.
 

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Sabre 34 - I would have preferred a design with a booth type seating arrangement like I had on my old Bristol. Where the table drops down to create a berth.

I have two settees, one a single, and one which pulls out to form a double berth. The salon table folds down from the bulkhead. When it's fully opened it blocks access to the head, which is forward. I believe Sabre did this to be able to fit a 2nd larger water tank under the settee. ( more water is probably more useful overall on a trip ) It's just a personal preference and not a deal breaker.

I'd also prefer an aft head rather than a forward one, so you didn't have to go forward through the salon to shed wet gear or disturb sleeping crew. I've long ago accepted the design I have.

There are some construction critiques that I have but I won't list them all. I wish they had bolted the cabin-top handrails through rather than screw them into the core.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Sabre 34 - ...

I'd also prefer an aft head rather than a forward one, so you didn't have to go forward through the salon to shed wet gear or disturb sleeping crew. ....
Interesting comment. I hardly use foulies anymore. But when I did walking through the salon to the head to hang then there to drip was no problem at all. Even in ocean passages when I did have crew... off watch was pretty much totally out and took a lot to disturb them ;-). When I sail with wifey or one mate... there's no one to disturb. On the other hand since we sleep aft I prefer the head far from the berth.
 

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Interesting comment. I hardly use foulies anymore. But when I did walking through the salon to the head to hang then there to drip was no problem at all. Even in ocean passages when I did have crew... off watch was pretty much totally out and took a lot to disturb them ;-). When I sail with wifey or one mate... there's no one to disturb. On the other hand since we sleep aft I prefer the head far from the berth.
Like I said it's not a deal breaker. Just a personal preference. I've actually just slept in the cockpit in foul weather gear, because it simply took too much effort to take it all off on put them back on between short shifts ;) and when every thing gets closed up tight it got a little stuffy below.

Below is a link to the Sabre 362 layout, one of the models, I'd consider if I was in the market again.



https://www.sailnet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=125884&thumb=1
 

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Jeanneau 54DS (older version with real teak and laminate, not the modern production teak)

We love everything about the boat's layout. Plenty of space for us and guests. Aft master suite, with dedicated head and dedicated shower, which are on opposite sides of the cabin, not segmented within the head. This has effectively made it his/hers sinks and mirrors.

The forward cabins have removable walls, so can go from three rooms that sleep 6 to one huge room that sleeps two, with a fully size couch (folded down uppper bunk) and the biggest closet imaginable (the v-berth). All contained with an ensuite head. It becomes bigger than the master, but the bunk is smaller.

There is another day head off the salon. Tons of storage, although, much of it is not super accessible, as it's under seat cushions. The aft lazerettes I can climb into and full stand up. Amazing room.

Tons of space for entertaining in the salon and cockpit "deck salon". With our enclosure, the cockpit really becomes a comfortable outdoor deck, even in cold or rainy weather.

The boat is certainly capable of ocean passages, but not built as sturdy as some other more well know "go-anywhere" brands. Subjectively, I think she might need more repair, after taking a long passage, but I'm not sure that's really true. I've never heard of a repairless passage on anything. We have beefed up the thru-hulls, so some of it can be accommodated. You can't get away from a spade rudder, which is not as protected as a skeg, but spades cross oceans all the time. Our rig is strong, the winches are beefy and our ground tackle is ample (300ft of 1/2" chain on a 75lb anchor).

She is comfortable in all respects. Creature comforts, plenty of room, huge centerline king sided bed, sails comfortably. We can make all the power we need, but diesel tankage is low at only 100 gallons. At 2g per hour in cruise, that's only 50 hours, but can be extended substantially at slower speeds/RPMs. Way more than sufficient for coastal, not enough to bail out a Bermuda crossing, let alone to the Caribbean. Water tankage is high at 220 gallons. I'd almost rather it be the other way around. You can make water, you can't make diesel. What I want is both.

The galley is excellent, with two fridges. Double sink, washer/drier, microwave, four burner stove and oven. Great spot to cook. She has a dishwasher, which is entirely stupid. We've never used it, I don't even flush out the antifreeze anymore. The space needs to be repurposed to galley storage.

Most of all, she's fast and sails very easily. She can fairly easily be single handed, when nothing is going wrong, of course. For practical purposes, with one of us below or napping, that's how we technically sail anyway. One never needs to leave the cockpit for any normal sailing event: raise, furl, trim, tack, reef, etc. It took some getting used to 10 years ago, but I've grown to love the 150 mast head genoa, which dwarfs the main. The main is virtually a balancing sail, but not quite. No main at all and I can run the genoa virtually to DDW.

That's my random stream of consciousness. I'd answer any questions anyone has, if any.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Minni... that sounds awesome! except that monster head sail!
 

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My review is literally in the July August 2010 edition of good old boat magazine, pages 10-13. granted done by another person.....but fits it pretty well.

1985 Jeanneau Arcadia. of which there is around 8-12 of 300 or so in North America.

Now to figure out how to post jpg of the pages.....

marty
 

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Sabre 34 owner posted earlier about his boat.
I think my 34-2 is similar.
The cabin table on the bulkhead is very big and very heavy.
I will never use it.
Its good material for a make shift rudder, but is otherwise just useless weight.
Its designed for weekend use.
If i had a land base it would not be on my boat

There may be things on a lightish boat that just dont make sense for a cruising boat.
Storage is another thing. Get inventive
 

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Sabre 34 owner posted earlier about his boat.
I think my 34-2 is similar.
The cabin table on the bulkhead is very big and very heavy.
I will never use it.
Its good material for a make shift rudder, but is otherwise just useless weight.
Its designed for weekend use.
If i had a land base it would not be on my boat

There may be things on a lightish boat that just dont make sense for a cruising boat.
Storage is another thing. Get inventive
In the days before chart plotters and Ipads, I found the table useful to fully lay out a chart and plan routes. it's more roomy than the chart table, which even seems unnecessary nowadays.

Now, as you say, it's for weekend use..or whenever I have guests come by, I'll use it as a buffet table.
 

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Jeanneau 39i

We have had Azura for a bit more than a year so we are still in the honeymoon stage, and have so far had one 2 week long trip, and many weekends and overnight trips.

We still love almost everything about the boat;
-Really nice sailing qualities, albeit somewhat under powered in light wind
-good tankage for our purposes
- good battery capacity (needs more charging options though)
-huge amount of storage...we have yet to come close to filling it
-nice sized L-shaped galley with lots of storage
-huge head with separate shower and linen cupboard
-2 large Berths with room to sprawl out, and enough headroom in the v-berth to sit up straight in bed.
-huge open cockpit that is great for entertaining, and short handed sailing. It is easy to sail the boat without disturbing any non-sailor guests that may be on board.
-overall build quality seems very good for a production boat. Mill work all fits nicely and looks good. There is lots of synthetic laminates used, but it appears very durable, particularly the laminate cabin sole, which I suspect will age better than real wood. (Time will tell I guess)
-all the wiring is well labelled and harnesses are easy to access, and are secure and protected from chaffing.
-plumbing is also neat and tidy, done in colour coded PEX tubing.

There are a few things that I am not crazy about...

The chart plotter in the cockpit is mounted low on the end of the table pedestal so it is difficult to see from anywhere but directly behind the helms. Even then you sometimes have to bend over a bit. It would have been better on an elevated pod that could be swiveled to face the more comfortable outboard helming positions.

The transom slap can be quite loud...an unfortunate consequence of the beam that makes the boat so roomy! I have some ideas to reduce that.

The instrument panel is very basic...only one spare switch, and no easy way to add more. Digital volt meter and tank levels seem to work fine, but no ammeter at all! The panel can display amp draw, but Jeanneau did not see fit to install a shunt!

Engine panel is also basic...no temperature or pressure gauges, just idiot lights! I would prefer to have a bit more data on how my engine is running, and perhaps catch a problem before a light comes on!

The fridge is cavernous, which is great, but the freezer compartment is small. It would have been nice to have more freezer space. Also the fridge condensing unit is very difficult to access. I have some ideas to improve the fridge...stay tuned!

The salon area is great for sitting around the dinner table, and will seat 6, but some of the angles on the setees make for limited lounging space. The fake leather upholstery is durable, but cold and firm. A few pillows and blankets have improved it, but we still have a bit of work to make the interior more cozy and inviting.

The opening portlights above the stove and in the head cannot be opened in rainy weather without letting rain in. The head also has an opening overhead hatch that is protected by the Dodger, but it would be nice to have ventilation directly above the stove when cooking on wet days.

I am sure I will discover more little annoyances over time, but so far we are overjoyed with our purchase!

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk
 

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1983 O'Day 22

Roomy (We are semi reformed backpackers.)
Fast (She travels at 65 mph, then takes about 45 minutes to get in the water.)
Floats in 18" of water. (TowBoat US has shown up a few times to "rescue" us from our anchorage.)
Fun (She sails like the big dingy she is.)

She actually sails nicely, once I put new sails on her. Please don't judge her based on the performance of the 40 year old original sails! Obviously, she is the wrong boat if you want to cross a big ocean. She might do OK crossing a smaller one, like the Atlantic, if you can always find a harbor to duck into if the weather threatens ;-)

They are old boats at this point, with all the old boat problems. But, at 22', no problem is really too big. Check the cored decks VERY carefully for rot/moisture.

I've got about $8,000 in mine, I can probably sell her for about $3500. But, I've rebuilt most everything to my standards, have a sidescan fishfinder, solar power, and some other "ridiculous" upgrades. My favorite upgrade was dyneema rigging. A few pounds saved raising the mast helps, and we have no more worries about kinking the stainless stays.
 

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Bristol 29.9

likes:
  • Skeg hung rudder - supports and protects the rudder.
  • Prop in aperture - protects the prop and offers some resistance to snagging crap pots, etc.
  • easy access to chain plates for inspection and replacement.
  • good engine access especially considering her size
  • Beautiful - I love her classic lines beautiful warm interior
  • Solid, quiet - The interior is all hand built mahogany, tabbed to the hull. it's all well made, lovey and sturdy. It's hard to explain the comfort I gets when coming off watch, going down below to a quiet restful place. I've been on so many boats that creak squeak and grind in a seaway making it hard to get rest.
  • Lead encapsulated keel - I prefer this to a bolt on keel
  • large chart table
  • well balanced under sail, tracks well and has a light touch on the wheel.
  • bulkhead mounted table with leaf. In the smaller configuration it does not block access to any part of the boat. However if the leaf is opened it will block access to the head and v berth
  • fast - for an old, fat, heavy boat. We have won our share of PHRF races.
  • Storage - well thought out and quite a lot for a small boat.
Dislikes:
  • Poor side deck drainage - Water flowing down the side decks will not drain overboard fast enough and overflows onto the cockpit seats! It soaks your ass and feet. Not so bad in the summer, but damned annoying in the cool weather.
  • Anchor locker is shallow. you need to be deliberate when stowing rode so that it does not bunch up.
  • Butcher-block Formica in the galley and chart table. It's "so 70's"
  • Chart table has no fiddles (I'll address that this summer)
  • Chart table uses the quarter berth for a seat. I dislike this layout very much. It makes access to the quarter berth awkward either as a berth or as storage. And makes sitting at the chart table uncomfortable.
  • The head is a tight squeeze - it's narrow and tucked up against the mast.
  • not fast - to old, fat and heavy. We have not won enough PHRF races!
  • Storage - I guess there is really never enough storage :)
 

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1973 Columbia 41 Center Cockpit Motorsailer

With an 11-foot beam to a 41 foot length, she is very narrow making space aboard at a premium (for her length). Top this off with the fact that the table in the main saloon is mast-mounted and does not service the starboard side settee, feeding a crew of 6 is cumbersome. Also, the cabin sole is an ugly bare wood under white paint laden with screw heads outlining the 4 tanks (2 fuel and 2 water). The battery bank takes up storage under the aft section of the v-berth (which would be best suited for storage--maybe as a clothes dresser--rather than the cavern under the cabin sole where the generator is. There is little storage in the galley, but there is ample storage in the stateroom, so much that the galley storage includes the stateroom--pots and such live on the port side (the side the galley is on) under the aft berth in those drawers. However, since I have added a lift-up table to extend the limited counter space, the door to the stateroom must be closed to use the table, restricting access to the stateroom. The saloon settee cabinets are rather spacious, but not tall enough to stow full-size books! :( It's only 11-7/8" tall (Nigel Calder's <i>Boatowner's Mechanical and Electrical Manual</i> will not fit in there vertically).
With a nearly 7 foot freeboard and a 2 foot coaming, don't expect the cockpit to get even moist except during a hurricane or seas over 20 feet. I have never sailed her, but I believe that 10 foot seas would leave the cockpit totally splashless (and maybe sprayless depending on the wind), and possibly 15 foot seas. It might get wet (with seawater) at 20'. (I have been in 20 foot seas in the Gulf of Mexico on a 96 foot CamCraft oilfield Crew Boat named "Judy D" for Marine Transportation of Panama City FL).
This boat was possibly abused and definitely neglected by the previous owner(s), and as I was unaware of the "e-Bay Buyer Protection" at the time, I bought a pig. I removed a bulkhead with a Shop-Vac for God's sake! But I am replacing all the rotted wood (and stopping all the leaks) with Marine ply and REAL TEAK! This has been a very expensive venture and I can only hope to break even on the sale.

ALL NEW CANVAS! BIMINI COVERS DODGER MORE

https:/flickr.com/photos/riggy001 $20,000 worth of canvas and wood work completed to date.

I will accept $28,000 with the all new canvas, new settee cushions (upholstered), new galley cabinet and counter, and LP Gas piped into the galley. I personally sewed everything! With a 1958 Singer Model 66-16!

PICS at https://flickr.com/photos/riggy001
 

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Freedom isn't free
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I know this is difficult to say, but the topic actually exists here:
https://www.sailnet.com/forums/boat-reviews/

It is a whole forum dedicated to folks reviewing their boats. Hell I posted several pages worth of modifications to my last boat there, and my last, last boat there.

That's not to say that the forum doesn't need new life and all, or a "summary" thread. But there are topics for forums other than "General Discussion (sailing related" on this board.
 
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