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1979 C&C 30 Mk I - 2QM15
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Discussion Starter #1
I'm probably going to be spending a great deal of my time on the water either single handing and/or sailing with passengers that don't necessarily know how to sail. So I'm curious about what options there are for rigging a self tacking jib setup.

I looked at some of the "out of the box" self tacking jib systems, but most seem to require either a fore deck traveler like the Harken system, or an ankle smasher like the Hoyt system. Those all require permanent modifications to the boat and are pretty expensive.

I could be wrong, but I'm guessing that an overlapping fore sail isn't going to work for this. So can you just furl up until the foot of your sail comes back just to the front of the mast. And then from there, rig a single swivel block at the base of the mast and bring a single sheet back to a single cockpit winch for trim?

Or could you tie off a line on the port side in front of the mast and thread it through the clew to act as a traveler. Then run the other end through a swivel block on the starboard side that leads the sheet back to a single cockpit winch for trim?

I'm not looking for something that's going to give me perfect racing sail shape, but I don't want something that's just going to heel the boat and kill all semblance of thrust either.

Would love to hear from anyone that's tried rigging for self tacking, what your experiences were/are, and pictures would be helpful.
 

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The problem with doing what you're suggesting... reefing the sail on the roller furler until the clew is forward of the mast and then using a single sheet and turning block are:

1) The sail will be very baggy and have lousy shape because of being reefed on a roller furler. Most roller furlers are good for about a 30% reduction in sail area...but more than that, they get really baggy.

2) Unless you're planning on only sailing close hauled, the turning block for the sheet will be too far inboard for the sail to have any decent shape. The clew will be pulled in and destroy any resemblance to an airfoil shape on the jib on any point other than close hauled.

This second point is kind of the reason they use a traveler track or a jib boom, so that the clew of the sail can move outboard as the sheet is eased...
 

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We have a factory-installed Hoyt Jib Boom and it's really great for single handing!!!

I'm not sure what you mean by an "ankle smasher".

It does require permanent modifications and, like all things marine, is expensive.

You're right in your presumption the regular working jib for this set-up is less than 100%.

We also have a 135% Genoa the previous owner added. In an emergency, it can be furled and controlled by the boom, but, as sailingdog points out, it's far from a perfect set-up.

One issue I would caution you is to consider how the rigs you're thinking of will work at, or near, dead down wind. The Hoyt has an optional "extender" which we don't have. Without it, it's virtually impossible to sail wung out in less than 10kts of wind.

Paul
 

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Telstar 28
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We have a factory-installed Hoyt Jib Boom and it's really great for single handing!!!

I'm not sure what you mean by an "ankle smasher".
That would be the Hoyt Jib Boom or the Camberspar... :)

It does require permanent modifications and, like all things marine, is expensive.

You're right in your presumption the regular working jib for this set-up is less than 100%.

We also have a 135% Genoa the previous owner added. In an emergency, it can be furled and controlled by the boom, but, as sailingdog points out, it's far from a perfect set-up.

One issue I would caution you is to consider how the rigs you're thinking of will work at, or near, dead down wind. The Hoyt has an optional "extender" which we don't have. Without it, it's virtually impossible to sail wung out in less than 10kts of wind.

Paul
 

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1979 C&C 30 Mk I - 2QM15
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172 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
I'm just trying to visualize this and noodle it through...

In the turning block at the foot of the mast scenario. A single sheet would be tied to the clew, fed through a turning block at the forward base of the mast, and the other end of the sheet would come back to the cockpit where it could be paid out or pulled in for trim.

Ignoring the efficiency of furling the jib clew to the front of the mast for a moment (because a smaller jib "could" be used)... This setup would only allow the clew to travel from one lifeline to the other, (e.g. close hauled to a border line close reach). Otherwise when the sail went up and over the lifeline even with lifeline rollers, the downward angle of the sheet to the turning block would have it sawing against the top of the lifeline and destroying the sail shape.

BUT... what if instead of attaching the block to the "base" of the mast you attached it to the spinnaker pole ring moved down to a point that was near level with the topmost lifeline? Wouldn't that allow the clew to travel outboard as far as you wanted without any downward force causing the sheet to be bent over the top of the lifeline?

I'm just trying to understand if there's any way possible to rig for occasional, functional, albeit maybe not pretty, self tacking that could be used in fairweather conditions, (not in a gale), without the expense of a major deck hardware upgrade.
 

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ASA and PSIA Instructor
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Anything other than a prorperly configured self-tacking deck track/Hoyt system will be both not pretty and not functional. Forgetaboutit. Not to mentionsthat if you install isuch a system on typical cruiser, one not designed for performance with only a working jib, you will quickly get tired of going nowhere, slowly with a small jib in under 13 mph winds.
 

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I also sail with people who are not expereinced. I have a 150% genoa. Sine the main sail pretty much takes care of itself during tacks, that leaves you availabel to tack the head sail. You can easily talk a person through a tack, especially if thier only job is to release the now windward sheet. If you want to get together sometime and talk sailing PM me. I am docked at Watergate.
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I have a jib boom for my working jib, but I rarely use it. As you become more experienced I doubt that you will find tacking with the larger genoa a problem. If I'm single-handling I will sometimes briefly engage my autopilot to leave me free to handle the winches in a stiff breeze. I must admit that my jib-boom sees more use as a mount to place shading cover on the foredeck than as a sail tending device. 'take care and joy, Aythya crew
 

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1979 C&C 30 Mk I - 2QM15
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172 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
I also sail with people who are not expereinced. I have a 150% genoa. Sine the main sail pretty much takes care of itself during tacks, that leaves you availabel to tack the head sail. You can easily talk a person through a tack, especially if thier only job is to release the now windward sheet. If you want to get together sometime and talk sailing PM me. I am docked at Watergate.
Nick - You apparently aren't setup in your profile to allow PMs. (The option doesn't come up when I click on your name).
 

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So, my boat has a self-tacking 100% jib using a track. It's great for short-tacking to windward up the estuary and lazy sailing days. Between that and the power winches the crew is getting positively lazy.

There are some downsides, most notably when heading dead downwind in light breezes. We usually just give up and roll up the jib under those circumstances since the flapping back and forth getting pretty anoying very quickly. I also think tacks are a bit slower since you can't back the jib to help the bow go across. And heaving-to means going forward to set a pinstop to keep the jib backed.

All in all though, for short-handed sailing its great.

judie
 

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BC - can you reach your primaries from the helm? If so, I think you may be able to tack the genoa single handed. Your boat is going to want a genoa for the light days on the Chesapeake, which really precludes using a self tacking arrangement.

I single hand and can tack my 145 on my own, with or without the help of the autopilot managing the tack.

Worst, worst case....roll up the genoa, tack the main and pull out the genoa on the new tack.

I'd suggest you try to avoid adding this hardware....but there is no harm in trying out your centerline block idea this season. Try it and let us know how it works.
 

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1979 C&C 30 Mk I - 2QM15
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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
I may just be over anticipating issues that won't be there. I'm used to racing where every task is parsed out to individual crew members so that every movement of the boat and trim of the sails is crisp and quick.

I have a pair of Barient 22's within easy reach just forward of the wheel. And I do have an autopilot too, but I'd rather not resort to using it for tacking if I don't have to.

I'm just having a hard time trying to visualize how, (while sailing close hauled on a breezy day for example), I'm going to turn the wheel, release the lazy sheet, and reel in the working sheet to a point where I won't have to wear out the crank trimming in afterward... All while making sure the boat maintains the proper angle to the wind.

It sounds like you're not having any trouble, so I guess I just need to work through the timing of doing it myself.

(I'm still gonna try the centerline block setup to see if it works. It doesn't cost anything to rig it that way, and it'll only take a handful of tacks to know if it works or not).
 

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http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo57/Tmebandt/boat014.jpg

This is my setup.

The pivot is placed back far nuff to allow the boom to go just short of 90 degrees.

The rigging is just like end boom sheeting on a main or mizzn.

I can sheet the jib boom to the center of the boat.

Good for lazy sailing.

The boom also is my gin pole for lowering the mast to go under bridges.

One thing with the pivot where it is though--you can't just drop the jib, you need to release the hanks as it comes down or raise the boom.
 

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Backcreek.. If you sail singlehanded, make a habit of just using a 100% jib (if you have one) and continue to use your regular sheeting track arrangement. The center-block idea will not give proper sailtrim in any conditions nor at any angle of attack. Using a non overlapping sail will greatly ease the tacking by avoiding hangups and minimizing the amount of sheet to be pulled through.

Your C&C will move OK in all but the lightest conditions. I'd avoid the unnecessary complications associated with the various self tacking arrangements. Most boats that have such setups are designed with that in mind from the get-go.

If your primaries are reachable from the helm, it's a simple matter of coordinating the turn, and handling the sheets yourself. - and you'll get more exercise to boot!
 

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lazzy sailing

 
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