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Discussion Starter #1
Boat A: Hove to, wind on starboard, up wind of boat B.

Boat B: Starboard tack, close hauled, port side and leeward of A. Holding course would intersect boat A amidships. Falling off to a beam reach then heading back up would easily allow crossing boat A's bow, as boat A was drifting at less than 2 knots.

Who is the stand on vessel?

My answer as skipper of boat A is that I was stand on vessel as we were both under sail, it was a crossing situation with both boats on starboard tack and the other boat was to port of me. Never the less, the skipper of boat B hurled some invective my way as he altered course to cross my bow. There wasn't much I could have done that wouldn't have made the situtation worse and besides I was having a nice lunch and couldn't be bothered. LOL

Actually, I jumped up from lunch and made ready to get out his way if he didn't change course. Still he was so arrogant it made me wonder if I was missing a point somewhere.
 

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right of way

Rule 13 Overtaking . A) Regardless of any other rule, an overtaking vessel must keep out of the way. B) A vessel is overtaking when approaching from within the arc of its sternlight ,more than 22.5 degrees abaft her beam. C) If in doubt,assume YOU are overtaking. D) After passing forward of the arc of the sternlight arc YOU remain the give-way vessel until past and clear. Was he overtaking you?
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
I would argue that he was since he was astern on my port side when he tacked over in my direction. However, He was abaft midships when I noticed he was headed out of the bay, so my desription was based on the point I noticed the situation developing, The skipper of boat B likely knew the situation was going to occur before I did and it would have been apparent to him as soon as he tacked over and headed up to close hauled.

Prior to that he'd been practicing racing around drop bouys with a group of other boats, in a bay while we were drifting for lunch and I had assumed he was daysailing out of one of the marinas/homes inside the bay. When they broke up, the other boats headed into the marina and I lost track of this boat for a while. At the time I noticed a potential problem, he would have been beyond the arc of my stern light, but he was well beyond our stern when he started in our direction.

Perhaps I was interpreting the rules incorrectly, but had the situation been reversed, I would never have enforced my rights on a boat that was hove to, when I could avoid it with little to no effort.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Yeah I was attempting to show how the same situation might appear different in the different skippers eyes. I felt I was stand on, because I belived he was over taking me, since I believed his manuver began behind me, but he was probably was thinking hey that guys to windward, he has no rights, even though falling off 20 degrees for couple of minutes would put him well ahead of my bow.

He did adjust course as I got the engine started and prepared to get out of his way so at least we agreed that we both needed to avoid a collision.

Still and all, even if I was in the right as skipper of boat B, I don't think I'd feel the need to both push the situation to a close crossing and throw f-bombs, when it could be avoided with little effort on my part. There were no constraints due to depth or any other consideration.
 

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whatever happened to common courtesy? i would have fallen off for a short time if i were boat B and not said anything.
 

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Would a hove-to boat with the skipper eating lunch count as "not under command?"

I often run into (not literally) a similar question on my normal sailing lake. Power boaters often take a break from boating and just drift around, having lunch or whatever. Some how they always seem to end up on my lay line to somewhere.

I've assumed them to fall under the "not-under-command" rules, but the hove-to example makes me wonder if I am really the stand-on vessel? (Not that I would expect them to know to get out of my way)
 

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Drifting just to drift is not vessel not under command.Vessel not under command " vessel UNABLE to maneuver due to some exceptional circumstance such as equipment failure".
 

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Boat A- enjoying a nice day on the water, hove to, eating lunch. Boat B- jerk that felt it necessary to demonstrate his lack of class.
 

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Would a hove-to boat with the skipper eating lunch count as "not under command?"
Not under command means a vessel which through some exceptional circumstance is unable to manoeuvre as required by these Rules and is therefore unable to keep out of the way of another vessel. Usually that means that the propulsion system or steering system is BROKEN DOWN.

Jack
 

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Was Boat A displaying the required dayshape to indicate "not under command"? I would suggest "restricted maneuverability" would be in fact the correct dayshape.

My guess is no, you were not.

You were in fact sailing if you were making two knots, indicating you were in a current or your boat was not stalled out and drifting downwind. You just weren't sailing very well. I would suggest that it would be difficult for a boat sailing close-hauled at five or six knots to distinguish your "hove to" from "poor sailing, but sailing nonetheless" as two knots is pretty fast movement for "hove to". Had you displayed the appropriate dayshapes (which I know few own and fewer use, even fishermen or dredgers), there would have been less ambiguity and more a response of "I don't know what those cones and balls mean, but I do know I'll give it a wide berth...READY TO TACK..."

You were counting on another sailor to divine your intention to remain hove-to. That's not his duty. You were moving, if slowly, and were the windward boat. Therefore the onus was on you to make your intentions known to him. You could've used a signal horn, also, or a bell, but that's not generally understood these days either, although it's probably a better bet than dayshapes!
 

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Was Boat A displaying the required dayshape to indicate "not under command"? I would suggest "restricted maneuverability" would be in fact the correct dayshape.
I do not think a hove-to vessel is RAM

The term "vessel restricted in her ability to manoeuvre" means a vessel which from the nature of her work is restricted in her ability to manoeuvre as required by these Rules and is therefore unable to keep out of the way of another vessel.

The term “vessels restricted in their ability to manoeuvre” shall include but not be limited to:

(i) a vessel engaged in laying, servicing or picking up a navigation mark, submarine cable or pipeline,

(ii) a vessel engaged in dredging, surveying or underwater operations,

(iii) a vessel engaged in replenishment or transferring persons, provisions or cargo while underway,

(iv) a vessel engaged in the launching or recovery of aircraft,

(v) a vessel engaged in mineclearance operations,

(vi) a vessel engaged in a towing operation such as severely restricts the towing vessel and her tow in their ability to deviate from their course.
I use an MOB method that involves heaving-to twice. It ensures that we can manoeuvre.

Jack
 

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IMHO a boat that is "Hove to" is not sailing and may as well be at anchor,even more so if wind on starboard, and hence should be stand on vessel.
And yes, I agree-need to display the dayshapes!!
 

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I do not think a hove-to vessel is RAM
Jack
Technically, you're correct. However, I would argue that hoisting a dayshape in this situation (boat is semi-sailing, crew is below) is better than nothing.

As my wife commented when I had her read this entire thread to make sure I was making sense, "if you pull over just onto the shoulder on the highway without putting on your four-way blinkers, how am I to predict when you are going to open your door, or whether you are still even running the engine? I have no information as to your intentions."

This is why I have full confidence in my wife's ability to take a watch and helm. She thinks this way out of the box!:D
 

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IMHO a boat that is "Hove to" is not sailing and may as well be at anchor,even more so if wind on starboard, and hence should be stand on vessel.
And yes, I agree-need to display the dayshapes!!
In fact, hove-to is sailing.

The term "sailing vessel" means any vessel under sail provided that propelling machinery, if fitted, is not being used.

The word "underway" means that a vessel is not at anchor, or made fast to the shore, or aground.

Jack
 

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Technically, you're correct. However, I would argue that hoisting a dayshape in this situation (boat is semi-sailing, crew is below) is better than nothing.
There is no day-shape for hove-to.

Hove-to is sailing. (see previous post #16)

You are also required to maintain a lookout at all times.

Jack
 

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Rule 13 Overtaking) Regardless of ANY other rule,an overtaking vessel must keep out of the way. Boat B is a ASS. Boat A was right in getting ready to makeway,risk of collision if in doubt assume collision.
 
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