Don't think anyone ever said hank-ons was bad.. it's just less convenient. In fact with hanked on sails you can always have the exact right sail up (assuming you have it) and there's lots to be said for that!

I like the convenience of the furler - but FWIW we don't reef with it. One other advantage is one less sailbag needing to be stowed below somewhere.

 

i will not place hank ons for my jib---i dont like even the idea of hitting the water as i have to change sails out on the sprit in heavy seas.
roller furling isnt as "bad" as you think, if you cruise in oceans or wild and wicked seas. even smooth ones become wild and wicked in short order.
smooth sailing.
i love my roller furling .

 

The writer has a Hunter 25, so he won't be doing any blue water cruising! Smaller boat = less need for RF. On my 35 I would not be without it when single handing.

 

I feel quite the opposite - a little boat is so much less stable that it's much more difficult to be on the bow swapping sails than on a bigger boat.

 

Coming from the power boat scene, I can't understand why a cruiser wouldn't want RF. If you were only into racing, I understand that.

 

In strong wind when you want less sail up, you can't partially furl a jib with a roller furling system (you can with a roller reefing furler) but if you have hanked on sails you can put a smaller sail on.

There are compromises with having a RF.

 

This is a little off Topic, but just a quick question. When in stronger winds and using a furling and flying a %110 (just for arguments sake question is the same for any headsail) is performances affected in bad way when you reef with the furling? In other words how much better is it to change the sail than to just change sail area with the furling. I realize there are a million details that can be factored in, but just in general.

 

Roller furling systems are designed for the sail to be all out or entirely furled. Roller reefing furlers are designed to use reinforced sails so they can be partially furled. You risk damage when partially furling a roller furler.

 

never mind, saw Post 8...

 

I single hand a 44 ft cutter with roller reefing on the genoa.

Trust me, at night, when you get a sudden squall, to be able to roll away all or most of the 135 genoa in seconds without leaving the cockpit is great.

The though of having to go to the bow in 25 - 40 knts, at night, propably in the rain and drop a 135 genoa is NOT ATTRACTIVE.

 

So I had to go out to the yard (boats at home) & check, the furler on our boat is a Harken MKIII. Is that a roller or a reefer?

 

Nowadays most furlers are reefing capable furlers. We just choose not to use a rolled up sail for the various reasons above. It also fits our usage and sail plan (we don't have a genoa)

Off the wind using a partially furled sail is less of an issue wrt sail shape and efficiency.



Definitely a reefing furler!

 

Not over rated in my book. Much better and safer for our conditons. Not too concerned with the speed factor. No need to go forward for changes and can release the whole deal on the way home in the evening. $0.02. AlohaKa'kou.

 

When you reef a reefing furler, anything beyond 10-15% becomes a parachute, not a sail. Think about it, the draft of the sail is designed for a sail that is, say a 130%. Now you reduce that to a 90%, the draft remains the same but you have a much smaller sail. Not to mention that that draft is now all in the luff of the sail instead of closer to the middle where it belongs.

I agree that there is real convenience to roller reefing, especially for a genoa. No doubt about it. But when that wind hits, you must keep the sail rolled up instead of being able to switch out the sail. Not to mention, if that roller jams at the wrong moment (they do occasionally jam), if there are high winds you are at the least gonna damage your jib and forestay (I did in my forestay this way last year) if not lose control of the boat.

A good compromise is what is called a Solent stay, basically a removable forestay that goes from just below the furler's forestay on the mast, and more or less parallel to it all the way down to a point in the deck just aft of the furler's forestay. That way you can keep the roller furling genoa for convenience, but when it really starts to blow you can hank on a storm jib or something similar. I didn't do this because my furler sucked anyway, and it would have costed a bit more to install, but it is really a great idea.

ALSO: you can't disregard the cool factor of having that jib laying on your deck like the IOR racers do , everybody at the dock will call you a sailing "purist" if you get rid of the furler lol

 

Or if the budget allows multiples (my budget certainly doesn't) and the boat to go under them you can do this - no reefing required.

 

I spend PLENTY of time in performance mode and the full inconvenience with the 3 plus people it takes to drag in and flake a headsail on a big boat

And it is super fun on windy days when we change head sails for up and down wind legs

BUT there is always My personal boat Seafever on which i never have to leave the cockpit and the jib and main are furled in seconds so i have a nice neutral helm and the boat just GOES

And i can just lay back and relax

 

I think some really wrong information is being presented here. First, all of the current systems being offered both reef and furl. Second, most sailmakers can put shaping wedgies in the luff of the jib to improve sail performance when reefing. Most advise you will get decent performance reefing about 20%. So if you choose carefully for the conditions you normally sail in, you can have a jib that can be reefed from a pretty good sized genoa to a working jib. Based on the high winds we normally have here in South Texas, I chose a 120% that reefs succesfully to about 90%. The actual performance will be more a function of the sailmaker than the roller furler/reefer.
All of this assumes that you are not racing.
Now, I am 68 years old, have a prosthetic hip and a ruptured ligamenmt in my right wrist. I normally sail alone. A roller reefer/furler is a god send. I can handle quite a range of wind from the cockpit. I normally reef the main when the wind is 18 knots sustained, which I have to do at the mast. But the difference of reefing the main, which can be done in the draft of the jib when hove to, and changing head sails at the bow of a boat heaving rather dramatically in heavy chop is substantial.
Now if you want to change head sails from a 150 to 135 in light airs, that's no big deal. But changing headsails on a small boat when it gets rough and you need a working sail up, well that's different. And when you are alone, it is big time different.
So I disagree with the blanket statement that roller furlers are over rated. I just happens to be one more tool at your disposal to use or not use as you see fit.
Personally, I think tiller extenders are over rated. I'd much rather have a tiller pilot.
So there.
John

 

Generally, if it has a foil on the headstay it will reef. If it is a continuous line furler, it won't.

 

Don't have a furler, but I did rig a downhaul and some containment lines the other week which means I can drop the sail onto the deck from the cockpit, and keep it there.
Some days I would love the convenience of a decent furler/reefer, but I like the superior pointing ability of a properly sized and shaped headsail. If I were to go furling, I'd probably go for a 130% rather than my current choice of 155%, 115% or 90%. I'd then add an asym kite for light wind days. Can't afford any of that though so it's all irrelevant

 

Don't have a furler, but I did rig a downhaul and some containment lines the other week which means I can drop the sail onto the deck from the cockpit, and keep it there.
)

If you want to get really fancy, and you have a baby stay, or a second forestay, run the tail of your jib downhaul back to your second stay, thread it through your stormsail or staysail hanks to the head, essentially joining it to the staysail halyard. Now as you raise your staysail, your downhaul pulls your jib down. Two jobs done with one line, from the cockpit.

 

Doesn't anybody read scripture anymore?

"And on the eighth day God created roller furling, and He saw that it was good." So begins the Book of Jib, a little known book in the Bible, in which God cast His gaze down from the heavens and beheld the labours of the many sailors as they raised and lowered and, with great difficulty, flaked their headsails, always in a grassy area which was supposed to be free of the droppings left by the dogs of Hell but never was found to be so.

"God then took pity on the humble workers of the foredeck and inspired His prophets Harken, Schaefer, Hood, and Profurl." To these He gave insight so that they might develop a device which would lessen the burden. For many years did the men of the sea rejoice at their newfound innovation. But soon they forgot that the miracle of roller furling was a gift from God and instead began to believe it of their own making. They added automatic motors, and applied it to the mainsail as well, which constituted a breech of ancient law, the manual hoisting and lowering of the mainsail being a sacrament. They furled sails hither and yon, inside the mast or the boom, trying to hide the shameful practice from the eyes of God.

God, being then displeased with the arrogance of man, jammed the furling units, leaving the sails exposed to the gales, which tore at them and made the sailors cry and gnash their teeth. The sailors brought down their tattered rags from aloft, and with heads hung low did take them to the sail maker, whose prices soared higher than the stars in the firmament. And with a mighty shout their checking accounts were laid to waste. The sailors did then beseech redemption. "From this day forward we shall flake our mainsails and mizzens about the boom like men!" And God saw that it was good.

 

....I hope Brenda doesn't see this......

 

From my dockwalking, I'd say the decision has been made. At least 80% of the boats have jib furling.

 

The crew and I are not getting any younger so we added a race model roller furler to our race boat. the sail can still be changed to a smaller one if need be and it is installed with Kiwi slides so it is just like having a hank on jib when lowered but it can be roller furled. for cruising we can keep two sails hanked so to speak with the Kiwi slides, one in each sail slot on the foil. it is a continuous line furler so it can not be used as a reefing furler but we would never torture a sail that way. we are also installing a mainsail with Kiwi slides so we can use a stack pack for cruising and remove it for racing. the check stays double as the lazy jack lines to hold up the stack pack when used and as check stays during racing. Remove the roller furler now and there would be a mutiny for sure. they wanted electric winches but now that they have the furler I don't hear about the winches anymore

 

The furler on my boat has two grooves. I can drop the swivelhead down below the feeder and have the use of both grooves.
I have two wire halyards marked green and red so you don't cross them.
This allows me to change out a sail by hoisting the new one on the inside of the old one. Once it's up and set, I tack and drop the old sail down on the inside of the new sail I just hoisted.
I can also fly two headsails wing on wing downwind.

 

There's a lot of real good stuff here on this site!

Thank you to ya'll, I got my education on the "gizmo".

Love the God piece!! good job

 

I'm one of those in the process of dumping the furler for hank ons and the main reason is safety from a short handed perspective. I have a 40fter and it seems that I'm forever needing to point in winds over 15 knots; reefing a 135% genoa simply doesnt work. I once failed to make ground to windward in 30 knots; I resorted to the engine. Ever since I have had it in mind to dump the furler. In 25 knots I get there but slowly.

I would add that my sailmaker has made a good flat entry genoa (ie. zero Luff round) with a 9% camber that reefs well; its simply impossible however for a genoa to do the job of a jib. As the wind picks up excessive heeling from the large genoa is ever present regardless of reefing.

A 105% genoa without the added UV cover and strengthening means that it will be lighter and drooping it to the deck with a down haul seems not too difficult - according to my sailmaker. Getting rid of the furler also means that weight from the 14kg foil is removed from high up.

Not sure how the conversion will play out but a free flying 150% genoa/code-what-ever on a continuous furler is a possibility in light winds.

No one has come up with a convincing argument yet for not dumping the furler. On the contrary it seems that most people I talk to that are in the sailing game argue agaisnt large do-it-all genoas. To support that you only need to look at the latest crusing boats (ie. Bemeteau 40) which are sporting non-overlapping jibs. It should be noted however that these more modern hulls are probably more easily driven and maybe older fat hulls may indeed need large genoas.

 

No one has come up with a convincing argument yet for not dumping the furler. .

WHAT
WHAT
WHAT

Not having to go on the foredeck at night, single handed to douse a 135 genoa in the rain in a 40 knot squall because you can do it in seconds from the cockpit sounds good to me.

I would not fly a 135 genoa on my 44 footer at night single handed without the roller reefing gear.

Sounds pretty convincing to me.

Touch of reality required here.

 

TQA said
"I would not fly a 135 genoa on my 44 footer at night single handed without the roller reefing gear."

This is exactly why you wouldnt have a 135% genoa in the first place.

 

I don't understand Aac's response.

 

... My roller furling genoa was IMPOSSIBLE to take down/put up, even in the slip, if there was any wind to speak of. Getting the luff in and out of that narrow slot in the foil just wouldn't happen when you really needed it to. Now when conditions change I easily swap out the foresails....

Changing a jib off a furler should be much faster and easier than one with hanks...no hanks, what can we say. If you did not find it easier, then you needed to service your headfoil, or get a system that was not a POS. You may be able to get by quick stuffing a jib for a 25' by yourself, but if you drop a 135% to the deck of a 35' boat, you'd better have another helper and 10 minutes to put it away.

Even the local hotshot racers have furling systems...

 

Roller furling is so over rated

Roller furling is so over rated until you face the angry sea, in dark, and all by yourself. You only need to be unlucky once, I am not sure I am willing to take that chance.

Everything has its place and time, I choose my equipment wisely.

 

Whats there not to understand.

Benefits:

- the 105% should be good for up to 30 knots.

- it can be furled but why if dropping it to deck is easy; the luff is captive.

- no need fort a UV cover; my genoas visit the sail make once a year to redo the ripped UV covers from dragging it over the spreaders.

- it can sheet at angles better than 14 degrees - ie. no cap shrouds in the way

- it would allow for a storm jib without the need for extra stays; and dont forget putting a storm jib around a furled sail is probably more difficult than hoisting a proper storm jib.


It's because of the furling crowd I now have something that is dangeruous. I would hate to think what would happen if my engine decided not start in days where I need to point in heavy winds.

Or maybe its the case that most dont sail in winds greater than 20 knots; I do and in fact those are the days I look forward to.

 

Whats there not to understand.

- no need fort a UV cover; my genoas visit the sail make once a year to redo the ripped UV covers from dragging it over the spreaders.

-.

After the first year, why didn't you fix the problem instead of repeatedly fixing the sail?

Regarding your weight loss benefit by losing the foil- much of what you lose by getting rid of the lightweight foil and head bearing is likely regained by the weight of the hanks.