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Jason,

I would not recommend the graphite build-up. Unless you hone the delrin out enough get a full layer of graphie 1/8" or better it won't last and you'll be lucky to get the stuff to bond with the delrin anyway. And, honeing this build up and keeping it in line with the top bearing would be nearly impossible. I'm going to be looking again and searching in my little bag of tricks but I'm betting there is no easy way to tighten up this bearing. But, I'm considering replaceing the wick packing with a 25% glass filled teflon sleeve and using the packing clamp to take some of the slop out and seal the water out at the same time. Not only would this work but it would be easy to replace, sort of.

Paul L, So far I drilled 4 holes to drain any water out. Not more than a few ounces.
 

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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
John, good feedback, thanks again. I did not think of that.

I had (have) 1/2" of lateral play in the rudder, so I am facing a very worn delrin piece.

I think the biggest issue is the alignment when honed. If it is not PERFECT...it could possibly make the problem worse, or cause binding...which is why I am leaning towards a real roller bearing....maybe.
 

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Jason,

In getting the rudder out I had to remove the bolt that went thru the rudder stock and sleeve and slide to sleeve off the stock about an inch to get the bolt at the top (travel limit) out. The sleeve might have been bonded to the sleeve but it isn't any more and there will be two stock to sleeve bolts when it goes back together.
 

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...which is why I am leaning towards a real roller bearing....maybe.
Jason, You couldn't give me a roller bearing to replace the delrin. If you're going thru the effort of getting the old one out, don't mess up the OD of the housing and put a new delrin back in.

Unless you redesign the housing for a roller to keep the water out the roller will last a fraction of what the delrin would last, at three times the cost.

And the roller will have a fraction of the load carrying ability as the delrin.

Yes, I am an engineer and know a bit about bearings.

John
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 · (Edited)
J/28 Rudder Bearing Update

We've completed the overhaul of the rudder bearing on my J/28. This project certainly was a trial and error process, especially when it came to machining the new bushing.

As I explained in an earleir post, we found in the course of the removal that the bearing is in reality, a bushing, made of plastic/Delrin. The bushing is press fit into the hull and secured with set screws via the rudder tube. It did not appear to have any type of adhesive/sealant (5200, etc).

There is a 5" dia stainless collar affixed to the rudder shaft, which turns inside the bushing. My collar was slightly out of round. The yard deemed it serviceable and did not replace or machine the collar.

The new bushing material is a plastic called Vesconite. It shipped from Tennessee, so there is a US distributor. The bushing stock was machined to final demensions through a yard sub-contractor.

The first time the bushing was installed, the rudder would not easily go back into the hull. After 5 trips to the machine shop, each time taking off a couple more .002"....the rudder was aligned enough to be re-installed. It's important to point out that the rudder, old bushing and new bushing material were sent to the machine shop for the initial machine of the Vesconite bushing, but I don't know how or if measurements were made (this is my fault, I should have been more inquisitive...but I was trying to not piss off the yard folk).

J/boats uses a flax sealing system, that functions similarly to an over sized stuffing box. The yard used two layers of 1/2" packing to seal. I beleive the original was 3/8", but apparently the yard wasn't comfortable with the initial seal using 3/8".

The boat was launched Friday, and I have about 600 yards on the new bushing....moved from the yard to my slip. Overall, I think we chose the right materials, but the jury is still out on whether the stainless collar should have been replaced.

Of note, I am not happy with how much effort is required to turn the wheel. I don't have to manhandle it, but it doesn't spin as freely as before. The wheel pilot will turn the wheel (no load, done in the slip)...but to my ear, it is straining. Bottom line: it's 'pretty stiff'.

There are a couple possible issues: 1. The top sealing ring is torqued down too tightly on the (maybe) oversized flax packing, which is turn is creating too much friction against the stainless collar. 2. The tolerences between the Vesconite bushing and stainless collar are too narrow. 3. There is an alignment issue of the collar top to bottom within the bushing, creating friction.

I will report again after a proper sea trial under sail and power. The trip to the slip under power was short and I now know I have to get the engine aligned. While the rudder was out, I had the shaft and prop trued, then added a new split half coupling and a flex coupling (both by R&D marine / PYI) and a PSS shaft seal. I kinda knew it was going to need an alignment, but I was hoping it wasn't going to be as bad as it was.
 

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In making a LOT of plastic parts it sounds about right as anything they press into will shrink them :)


Good thing you did NOT use PEEK as you would have :eek: at the price


For real fun i do different size delrin valve spools that have to reach size at different temps :)
 

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Rdder Bearing update

Jason,

I know this is an older topic, but I have just purchased a J 28 and i have found that the rudder has a fair bit of slop side to side, much more so than fore and aft. its seems rather excessive. Jason, I found your posting here on Sailnet and wanted to touch base with you and see how you made out with your repair after you put some miles on the boat, how has it worked out?

Also, how do you like your J 28? Have you had any issue with the deck core?

Have you had any history of trouble with your 2GM, drivetrain and cutlass bearing? How about the martec 16 x 14 propeller? it seems well overproped and does not permit full engine rpm to be acheived. It sounds like you did the full deal ont eh drivetrain at the same time you had the rudder out, how has that functioned?

Thank you for all your help, i really appreciate any input you have.

Bill
 

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Bill, where you from? Where do you sail. Always like to hear from jboat people. I sail on Kentucky Lake and there is a j/28 that sails here with us and is very competitive in our PHRF fleet. They are very nice good sailing boats. I have not seen Jason posting here lately so dont have your feelings hurt, but welcome to Sailnet!!
DD
 

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Doug,

Thanks for the welcome. I've lurked on sailnet for a few years with my previous boat making good use of some good knowledge here, it's a great resource. My wife and i just picked up a J 28, we live and sail in the Fisher's island sound area, western end of Long Island sound. Love the area, great sailing and access to some good cruising and racing.

We love the boat so far, but she needs some work and it will be an ongoing project for me for many years to get her the way i'd like to see her.

Thanks again Doug, and how do you like the J 34?

Bill
 

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Discussion Starter · #30 ·
Hi Bill:

Welcome to the J/28 community. I have had absolutely zero problems with the bearing replacement since it was completed (now going on 2 seasons). The vesconite material is as-advertised and I am glad I used it. I would definitely recommend going with a FFP (firm fixed price) if you can get it, as I paid too much for the 'learning curve' by my yard.

The J/28 is the perfect boat for me, easily single-handed, fast for its size and comfortable below. This past off-season, I replaced all the standing rigging (something to check now that these boats are 20+ years old) - I had a cracked swage on the starboard lower. I pulled and painted the mast, re-wired the mast, etc. I actually re-rigged with rod instead of wire as the price delta wasn't much higher. Of note to all J/28 owners....I had a cracked spreader root bar - which could have been a disaster in the making. Had to have Hall make me a new one (they still have the templates). I pulled the chainplates to inspect and found some rotten core, which was removed and refilled with epoxy.

The only issues I've ever had with the Yanmar are: (i) a failed lift pump (ii) stripped bleed screw on the secondary fuel filter (iii) a bad injector - replaced both for ~$120. Other than that, she has been very reliable.

I never had the 'privilege' of the Martec on my boat. The PO replaced with a fixed 2-blade, which I have since replaced with a Variprofile 2-blade feathering prop. My experience with the martec is that they (i) aren't very efficient in fwd except in flat water (ii) don't go astern well at all. There are better options and improvements in prop technology since the martec was designed 20 yrs ago. I would recommend flex-o-fold or varifold.

No issue with the cutlass. And I've been satisfied (read no problems) with the rest of the drivetrain - which is to be expected since it is essentially new! (New Motor Mounts, New Split Shaft Coupling, Trued Shaft, New Prop, New Cutlass, New R&D Drivesaver plastic coupling).

As far as the engine not reaching rated RPM: Will the engine reach full RPM at the dock in neutral? And is the bottom clean? Fyi, the Yanmar tach is known for reading 'low'. I can get 3400 RPM on a clean bottom (but I don't like to run it there)

Bill, if you haven't already, please go over to Yahoo Groups and join the 'J28Sailors' group....

Happy to discuss further questions and, again, congrats on your ownership.
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
Doug,

I'm here....just not not as active as before (I ran out of questions/problems to ask....lol).

How the new 37c treating you? My folks still have the 34c.

-Jason

Bill, where you from? Where do you sail. Always like to hear from jboat people. I sail on Kentucky Lake and there is a j/28 that sails here with us and is very competitive in our PHRF fleet. They are very nice good sailing boats. I have not seen Jason posting here lately so dont have your feelings hurt, but welcome to Sailnet!!
DD
 

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Jason,
Good to see you are still around, I have not seen you post lately. The 37 is coming along. It had quite a bit of work needed as all 20 year old boats do, but all structual items were fairly minor and are now complete. We are working on sails and getting the bottom where I like it (slick) and just learning how to sail it well. That useally takes a year or two. Also I have gotten into sailing (crew) J/22's in my spare time. Not much time left to do anything else. Take care and post every once in a while!!
DD
 

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Doug,

Thanks for the welcome. I've lurked on sailnet for a few years with my previous boat making good use of some good knowledge here, it's a great resource. My wife and i just picked up a J 28, we live and sail in the Fisher's island sound area, western end of Long Island sound. Love the area, great sailing and access to some good cruising and racing.

We love the boat so far, but she needs some work and it will be an ongoing project for me for many years to get her the way i'd like to see her.

Thanks again Doug, and how do you like the J 34?

Bill
J/34 is gone. Someone wanted it worse that I did so I sold it, but it really was an outstanding boat; comfortable, fast, and good handling. I bought a J/37c in January and have been getting it up to shape this year. I have owned 3 J boats now and find they are the best out there (for me). Hopefully I keep this one for a while. Good luck with your 28, if you have questions, please feel free to PM me as I do have quite a bit of information on J's that I have gathered over the 12 years I have owned them.
DD
 

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You might want to look at some of the new composites rather than delrin, these have far lower wear rates and run smaller clearances.

The problem with delrin is that it is a melting material so it softens as it is worked hard and gets warm, it also expands more due to temperature change than moisture. Hard composites with dry lubricants now have some pretty low friction rates that perform very well even when compared to rollers and they suffer far fewer issues/failures. Search for marine composite bearings and you'll find the suppliers.
 
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