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This thread is being created for topics related Rush2112's boat search. To date Rush's boat search has led to discussions containing a large collection of posts on a broad range of topics that contain a lot of very useful information from a wide range of points of view. All of that is a very good thing.

But these discussions are spread across a profusion of threads with titles that do not relate to many of the posts. That doesn't necessarily do Rush as much good as it might, or other members researching a similar topic for that matter. Also some of the discussions have migrated between multiple threads losing context and making them harder to follow.

Hopefully, this thread will provide a more useful framework to continue the discourse to assist Rush in his search for the right boat.

Jeff
 

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I have been thinking about Rush's boat search for a while now. Like many people who are new to the sport, Rush's initial questions were exploring desirable and undesirable characteristics of a potential boat purchase by dissecting features of boats into their component parts. And while cases can be made for and against almost any design element in almost any particular boat, for most normal people the choices fall somewhere in the matrix between the ideal and the seriously compromise. For most of us, we tend to buy the boat that is closest to the ideal rather than the most compromised as we perceive our various choices.

Rush's search is a little different than most of the "I am new to sailing, I want to buy a boat, what boat should I buy?" threads in that he is sailing a venue in which the sailing conditions can be more challenging than many, his long term goals for the boat are ambitious, and his personal preferences do not necessarily align with his goals and budget.

As Rush has described his goals for this boat, they would include:
-A reasonably comfortable live aboard
-A platform to learn to sail
-A boat optimized for sailing in a frequently hash environment
-Robustness
-A good single-hander
-A boat capable of long distance voyaging
-Low deferred and long term maintenance cost
-An initial "ready to go" cost around $30,000

And looking at this list, in many ways these are seemingly mutually exclusive goals that therefore suggest that whatever boat he buys will require some level of compromise. To give an example to illustrate why I say there is a degree of mutual exclusivity in that list, I suggest that we think about the characteristics associated with some of these points. So, if we start with a boat that is a reasonably comfortable live aboard, that would normally be a boat with a lot of space for its length so that slip fees are smaller for the amount of accommodations. Normally that might mean a full bow and maximizing the percentage of the boat that is used for living accommodation.

But those same characteristics are at odds with a boat that is intended as a long range cruiser, where storage becomes more important than open accommodations, where small passage ways, galley and head permits bracing oneself while using these spaces, where the full ends compromise motion comfort and seaworthiness. Similarly, leaning too strongly towards the needs of a live-aboard overly compromises the platform to learn to sail, since a reasonably ideal platform to learn to sail is an easily handled and responsive design.

In any given year I seem to end up assisting somewhere between a half dozen and a dozen people locate a boat that makes sense to them and find and work their way through the process of buying that boat. Pretty much all of these require a a degree of compromise somewhere, and sometimes (rarely) that person's goals are so contradictory that that there is no acceptable choice for that person. But I typically suggest any particular choice be viewed on a matrix of that person's goals, and that any particular boat be considered in terms of how well it balances the conflicting characteristics of the various goals.

In Rush's case, I would suggest that his boat search be thought of as a square with the four corners labeled: 1) Live aboard, 2) Distance Voyager, 3) Optimized for a harsh environment, and 4) Platform to learn to sail on/ good single-hander.
The sides of the square might be viewed as being A) between 1 & 2:: large carrying capacity. B) between 2&3: Robustness, seaworthiness, good motion comfort, and able to shift gears quickly for changing weather, C) Between 3&4: easily handling, forgiving, responsive to sail trim, easily driven hull to allow smaller sail area. and D) between 4&1: there are fewer mutual characteristics except that robustness becomes less important and while reliability and low maintenance becomes a little more critical.

The reason that I suggest that this matrix of seemingly contradictory ideas is important to a boat search such as this, is that it can serve as a filter in considering any particular boat and better understanding its compromises and assets. Up to now much of the conversation has explored a zone between side A & B of the matrix. I suggest that the choices be expanded to a zone that also acknowledges the ideal characteristics of side C of the matrix.

But also, in many of the threads there is tremendously useful information , but some, if not most of which is 'worst case'. Take the high cost maintenance items thread as an example. Someone quoted the price to replace chain plates as being around $12,000. There is no doubt that is the case on boats that you have to disassemble much of the interior and which have complex chain plates, for uppers, fore and aft lowers, backstay and stem fittings embedded in the glass work. But while that may be true in many cases, it should perhaps add a criteria to the search that emphasizes either looking for a boat that has had the chain-plates replaced by a prior owner or else find a boat, which has a simpler chain-plates type that are simply a stainless steel bolted to a fiberglass reinforced bulkhead, and perhaps which has fewer attachment points. That would bring the ease of inspection and the price down enormously. For example, a few years ago I was quoted a price to replace all of the chain plates (except the stem fitting) on my 38 footer for well less than $2,500. That installation method allowed us to remove, inspect and reinstall the same chain-plates, then tune the rig in a little more than half a day. Only the welded fitting for the backstay needed to be replaced and cost around $600 at the time.

My point being that perhaps it is important to provide ways to mitigate and avoid the "worst cases" as well.

Jeff
 
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Hi Jeff,
Thanks for the thread and the posts. It's kind of awkward transitioning as there are a lot of people still posting in the other thread, so maybe I'll make a link from there to here.
Anyway, I found this thread then lost it and couldn't find it, then I found it from your profile ;-)
So I'll do my best to catch up- thanks again.
 

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...they are solid, simple, but well built boats. Nothing fancy about either the interior or exterior, but easy to work on, and tough as nails. My understanding is that they were designed as coastal cruisers, but obviously many have crossed the Atlantic.

As for price, it is listed at almost double what it would probably go for in the Great Lakes. But I assume the UK market is different, and if it's in exceptional condition, it may be worth considering.
Mike, thanks for the feedback on the Grampian. There is so little online about these boats so it's definitely good to hear from prior owners. It is certainly a bit more expensive than others I've seen but then again as you note, it is in exceptional condition. The advice from the boat maintenance thread that I started a little while back was very revealing to say the least, and put a whole new perspective on boat ownership for me- in fact dramatically changing my whole priorities list, so 'exceptional condition' is something that I now know is not just a matter of a little elbow grease and paint, but numbers like 60 grand of maintenance work! Yikes! So yeah I'll keep this one in the hopper for now ;-)
 

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I‘d speak to them, in order to better assess the answers. Allowing for careful editing of an email, or vague answers that drive followup questions, doesn’t help as much.

I see above the price may be high, then again, it may well reflect the amount of current work. It may also reflect an insurance repair. Sort it out.
That's a good point. I am still really wondering what happened that the boat needed a whole new keel. I was able to verify that the keel is in fact a replacement 'clone':

"Keel: brand new completely replaced in 2013 with solid newly patented clone & new keel bolts etc at a cost of over £10,000 inc VAT by Irons brothers The U.K's best keel maker in Wayde bridge Cornwall..."

And I'm still wondering why? Also the inconsistency of the ad saying it's a 1984 boat when production ended in 1977...

And another inconsistency, in the data section of the ad it says the engine is a 1999, then in comments below on the same page it says:

"Original ENGINE replaced with new professionally installed 2007 beta marine 28hp very low hours bomb "proof", Diesel (powerful) meticulously maintained by beta engineer, oil changed annually impellers replaced annually, filters replaced annually Professionally winterized each year. "

In fairness I have to say it does look you could eat off that engine, so I don't know...

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Rush, my friend, if there is one thing I've learned in twenty plus years of sailboat shopping, it's this: there's always another "perfect" boat out there. If you pass on one, there's another that will come along that is just as good if not better...
FWIW, my limited experiences with Grampians have been good.
Thanks for the feedback on the Grampians mstern, good to know that on their home turf they seem to have a pretty good reputation, it seems that they are on the more durable side of coastal cruiser. Still it's good to keep my head level, and not be afraid to pass on a boat as another one will always come sailing by ;-) Thanks again.
 

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Turns out it was a BS move during a divorce. He was never going to sell it...
I’ve also known many who have listed their boats at pay it or forget it prices. They’re only interested in selling at top dollar.
Yeah it's hard to tell what the real deal is here. I have to admit a 'company director' sinking 70 grand into a 25 grand boat doesn't exactly sound like good business practice, and why it's being sold is a little bit of a mystery, he was going to sail the Med then changed his mind. Then again, maybe he figured it would be better to upgrade a fixer upper than to buy a boat already in great shape. Apparently he didn't spend much time on sailnet.com LOL.

And who knows, maybe he's one of these guys who sailed once around England then discovered it wasn't for him, wouldn't be the first time I've heard that story. I'll give them a call tomorrow as you've suggested.
 

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Depends on where you boat. In the Pacific NW we get fog, and I notice that radar has become quite common in the last 20 years. We have it and appreciate how it reports reality, unlike the plotter. So both both are wonderful to have, but it's worth remembering that they do different things... Wonderful Things!
:)
Edit: our current Lowrance digital unit, also requires less amps by far compared to our original klystron tube model(s).
Great information olson34 thanks for sharing. Perhaps especially for single handed sailing a radar would in fact be very nice. Oddly I'd never even considered the fog. Actually if you are out where big shipping boats are passing through, in the fog, it could be properly terrifying not have good visibility. Seems like almost every day somebody mentions something that I hadn't considered at all. Thanks again!
 

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Mike, thanks for the feedback on the Grampian. There is so little online about these boats so it's definitely good to hear from prior owners. It is certainly a bit more expensive than others I've seen but then again as you note, it is in exceptional condition. The advice from the boat maintenance thread that I started a little while back was very revealing to say the least, and put a whole new perspective on boat ownership for me- in fact dramatically changing my whole priorities list, so 'exceptional condition' is something that I now know is not just a matter of a little elbow grease and paint, but numbers like 60 grand of maintenance work! Yikes! So yeah I'll keep this one in the hopper for now ;-)
Have you looked at the Grampian owners website: Grampian 26 Home Page
 

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As Rush has described his goals for this boat, they would include:
-A reasonably comfortable live aboard
-A platform to learn to sail
-A boat optimized for sailing in a frequently hash environment
-Robustness
-A good single-hander
-A boat capable of long distance voyaging
-Low deferred and long term maintenance cost
-An initial "ready to go" cost around $30,000
Yep, that sums it up pretty well.

In Rush's case, I would suggest that his boat search be thought of as a square with the four corners labeled: 1) Live aboard, 2) Distance Voyager, 3) Optimized for a harsh environment, and 4) Platform to learn to sail on/ good single-hander.
The sides of the square might be viewed as being A) between 1 & 2:: large carrying capacity. B) between 2&3: Robustness, seaworthiness, good motion comfort, and able to shift gears quickly for changing weather, C) Between 3&4: easily handling, forgiving, responsive to sail trim, easily driven hull to allow smaller sail area. and D) between 4&1: there are fewer mutual characteristics except that robustness becomes less important and while reliability and low maintenance becomes a little more critical.
That's true, I pretty much came into this wanting all four sides of the quadrant! LOL, and didn't see the natural trade-offs in different boat designs.
And in fact I would have put my early preference probably at line B, between 2 and 3.
The only thing I knew for sure was the North Sea has a mean reputation for turning nasty in a hurry and get surprisingly rough surprisingly often. Since then I have come around to the idea that it really is a 'cruising' lifestyle off the hook as they say that I'm really looking for, and while sailing performance is sometimes appreciated by cruisers, liveable comfort is a daily blessing. So 1 is higher on my list now. Then finally I was hit smack in the face with maintenance cost data and (oh boy!) was that a wake up. Also since then it has been suggested that most 'cruisers' simply do their best to watch the weather carefully and avoid the worst of the nasty stuff, staying close to the coast, and always having a go to ditch out location in mind if things turn for the worse. So I have also modified my 'blue water' requirement down to a 'relatively durable coastal cruiser'.

So I would say today my (dramatically revised) priorities would be:
1. Maintenance work up to date, good value for money. New engine, standing rigging, running rigging, wiring, and a good hull with osmosis work already done, and a good AP to help with solo reefing, changing sails, etc. Cold and hot pressurized water is a nice have, as is modern electronics. I can add a coal stove if it has no heating, but some kind of heat would be nice also as I am far north and the winters are cold up here.

2. After not being financially obliterated (and having this put an early end to my adventures!) I would say 1 a good live aboard and 2 durability and stability would about tie. I really very much like the idea of a heavier more sea kindly boat, and if I give up a fair share of performance for that trait then so be it. This is not only for me, but also for a few friends that I will like to occasionally drag along for day cruises, who have emphatically expressed their disappointment in the stability of lightweight rental boats, which turned them off to the whole idea of sailing. But I think they can be brought around :)

3. Easy of learning, and solo sailing. I suppose this one may have to go the wayside. If lines can be run aft and I can setup a flexible sailplan to keep me in the cockpit as much as possible (even if this means giving up a fair share of performance) then I suppose that might just be good enough. At this point it seems that aside from lines run aft, the best 'solo' feature would probably be a good AP. Almost no boats in my price range have a below decks AP, and I have been pretty well persuaded about the benefits of a good AP esp to a solo sailor so I am braced to deal with this upgrade if necessary.

4. So in dead last simply by law of trade-offs I suppose we have light weather performance, responsiveness, long distance carrying capacity, pretty lines or interiors, and anything luxury. If it looks like an absolute dog and has a particularly cheap interior I'm fine with that. This isn't a fashion show by any means.

My point being that perhaps it is important to provide ways to mitigate and avoid the "worst cases" as well.
Jeff
So yeah you're correct again in how my preference in the 'quadrant' has shifted. And you make good points about the variability of some of these potential nightmare maintenance items, and possible mitigation. I sure wish I could know in advance how accessible the chain plates are- I'll certainly add it to my list of questions for the selling owner. It's good to know that these are not always a bank breaking job.

So finally I wonder if you've had a chance to have a look at my latest love interest. She is attractive from a pure dollars poured into her perspective, although I am following up with the owner to try and figure out why the keel was fully replaced, I wonder what you think of her general shape and design:



So thanks for all the info and detailed responses you've provided this whole time. And apologies for the late response in this thread I found it and lost it and found it again. This thread is actually living in a different part of the forums, anyway... I just wanted to take a moment and say that I really do appreciate it. I may have been a little bit argumentative at first, but I'm sure you understand that there's a lot of conflicting data out there, and I just want to get to the bottom of things. This research project has been in many ways more detailed than my last house purchase! But then again, my last house didn't float ;-)
Thanks again!
 

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Have you looked at the Grampian owners website: Grampian 26 Home Page
I had not. Thank you, I'll check it out.

Edit: looks like a pretty informative site, I'll spend some more time.
Interesting I found that one registered owner has a 2-34 built by a different builder in 1982, so I guess a 1984 is not out of the question. That's a strange thing in the boat world how a builder can just pick up and build a discontinued boat. Can you imagine a car company today just picking up the plans and building say a 65 Corvette?

Anyway, the 34 is a decent looking boat actually. The big aft cabin looks a little awkward with no dodger and the sails down, but with a dodger and sails up it actually looks kind of cool- its different and I kind of like it. I wonder what you thought of how it sailed compared to your current boat. Did it track well? Did it roll much? How would you rate the overall stability and sea kindliness?
 

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I had not. Thank you, I'll check it out.

Edit: looks like a pretty informative site, I'll spend some more time.
Interesting I found that one registered owner has a 2-34 built by a different builder in 1982, so I guess a 1984 is not out of the question. That's a strange thing in the boat world how a builder can just pick up and build a discontinued boat. Can you imagine a car company today just picking up the plans and building say a 65 Corvette?

Anyway, the 34 is a decent looking boat actually. The big aft cabin looks a little awkward with no dodger and the sails down, but with a dodger and sails up it actually looks kind of cool- its different and I kind of like it. I wonder what you thought of how it sailed compared to your current boat. Did it track well? Did it roll much? How would you rate the overall stability and sea kindliness?
I used to be more up on Grampian lore back when I owned one, but my fading memory tells me that Grampian went out of business in the late 70s. Some of the hull molds were then sold off. I'm pretty sure the Gramp 34 hull molds went off to another builder who did a small run, calling them something else. I'll attach an old magazine article written about the Gramp history.

The Gramp 34s are not the prettiest of boats, for sure. But I can tell you that aft cabin is pretty nice for making the boat a great living space. I still miss it.

It was a good sailing vessel. The ketch rig is quite versatile, and easy to manage. Its modified fin with skeg allows for good tracking, making it easy on the helm. She wasn't the fastest boat, and didn't point as high as modern racers, but she was no slouch. For her size she seemed pretty seakindly. She's only got a 10' beam, and a 12,000# displacement, but I don't recall feeling she rolled much.

The major things I disliked about the Grampian was the small side decks going forward, and the tiny ones going aft. The cabin going forward has two step ups, making it harder to move around on deck, although once up by the mast the work space was good.

It was a good all-round boat which I had planned to upgrade to the point of making her truly 'blue water capable'. I would have done so had I not found my current boat, a Rafiki-37.
 

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Grampian is a bit of a strange company to define. As a teenager, I actually worked in the Grampian booth at the 1965 New York Boat show. My job was polishing the bronze hardware, handing out literature and explain the company to U.S. sailers. I later owned a Grampian 22 footer.

In the 1960's Grampian was a company that was hard to define In those days Grampian was building four different center cockpit, Angle designed motorsailers. They built a beautiful CCA style VanDyne designed 31 footer, a 27 foot Folkboat style boat, and a lovely high performance for the day C&C designed 22 footer.
The odd part was that the Grampian was surprisingly advanced in terms of building techniques. In the 60's Grampian was one of the first companies to use closed cell foam coring, and one of the first companies to use molded internal framing and a molded pan.
I have always understood that the reason for the advanced construction was a collection of disconnected factors. For reasons that are not clear to me, at one point in the 1960's Canada was one of the largest producers of industrial fiberglass products like fiberglass seats for subways and busses, frames used inside office seats and other industrial uses. The plant manager at Grampian in 1965 came out of the industrial fiberglass industry. But also it is my understanding that Peter Van Dyne was an aeronautical engineer which might explain the internal framing.
As to the Grampian 34-2, I have not actually seen one in real life but unlike the other Grampians of the era, it was a Van De Stadt design from a time when Van De Stadt was a highly respected design firm producing pragmatic and effective cruising boats.
I doubt that this design would have been intended as an offshore cruiser, but compared to many boats from that era, it would be a reasonable choice for cruising in a rough sailing venue even if not a perfect choice in an absolute sense.
I would like to comment on the the new keel. My guess is that the original keel was a lead keel with stainless steel J-bolt keel bolts. Replacing J-bolts is next to impossible and while it can be done, it is often less expensive to cast a new keel than to replace and fair the J-bolts in an existing keel.
I would also note that some Grampians were sold as kits. Given that the 34-2 was designed in Europe it would not surprise me if this boat was shipped to Europe as a kit and finished in Europe which may explain may explain the late launch date
It also isn't that odd for particular model boats to be built in multiple countries. For example, my boat was built in 6 different countries, the Laser also was built in 6 counties. J-24's were built in 4-5 counties.
Jeff
 
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Rush, do you have a goal for when you buy a boat?
 
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The Gramp 34s are not the prettiest of boats, for sure. But I can tell you that aft cabin is pretty nice for making the boat a great living space. I still miss it.
Yeah it's definitely an eye of the beholder thing.
At first I saw this one and thought well, that's definitely not a looker:
136812


And then I saw this one with a dodger and sails up and thought, well actually that looks pretty good:
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In any case looks are far from my priority list. Especially since the boats I found the prettiest - the IOR era with the short waterlines Jeff_H has convinced me to avoid. And my favorite lookers include the Scandinavian folkboats and the Tayana 37 so what do I know. Haha-

It was a good sailing vessel. The ketch rig is quite versatile, and easy to manage. Its modified fin with skeg allows for good tracking, making it easy on the helm. She wasn't the fastest boat, and didn't point as high as modern racers, but she was no slouch. For her size she seemed pretty seakindly. She's only got a 10' beam, and a 12,000# displacement, but I don't recall feeling she rolled much.
Good to know, thanks.

The major things I disliked about the Grampian was the small side decks going forward, and the tiny ones going aft. The cabin going forward has two step ups, making it harder to move around on deck, although once up by the mast the work space was good.
Funny that you should say that, I noticed that these rails seem to be in exactly the wrong spot, thus making the rather narrow sides here a bit challenging. I saw a boatshed video review where the cameraman was having some minor issue getting past this spot, which made me take notice:
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I see what you mean by the two steps up. And it sure looks like that rail could be a real toe-stubber. Still I'm sure its the kind of thing I'd get used to as one of those quirks that every boat has.

It was a good all-round boat which I had planned to upgrade to the point of making her truly 'blue water capable'. I would have done so had I not found my current boat, a Rafiki-37.
Well I can definitely see why you upgraded, the Rafiki 37 is a very nice boat. Looks super solid and has the reputation to match. Might even be on my list for second or third boat ;-)

Anyway, thanks again for the feedback on the G34, very nice to know.

Edit: Oh and I read the pdf, also quite interesting. Too bad they were on a comeback from being punished by the USD/Canadian dollar ratio, and making great sales progress when the financiers pulled the plug. Also interesting to see the different mergers and acquisitions that were on the table at different points. A fun read thanks.
 

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Grampian is a bit of a strange company to define. As a teenager, I actually worked in the Grampian booth at the 1965 New York Boat show. My job was polishing the bronze hardware, handing out literature and explain the company to U.S. sailers. I later owned a Grampian 22 footer.
LOL, I'm having a hard time coming up with a boat manufacturer that you don't actually have direct experience with :)

As to the Grampian 34-2, I have not actually seen one in real life but unlike the other Grampians of the era, it was a Van De Stadt design from a time when Van De Stadt was a highly respected design firm producing pragmatic and effective cruising boats.
Good to know about Van De Stadt, I've seen the name around a lot here, so I take it he's Dutch.

I doubt that this design would have been intended as an offshore cruiser, but compared to many boats from that era, it would be a reasonable choice for cruising in a rough sailing venue even if not a perfect choice in an absolute sense.
OK well in my current revised preferences, that would fit in the 'good enough' category- nice.

I would like to comment on the the new keel. My guess is that the original keel was a lead keel with stainless steel J-bolt keel bolts. Replacing J-bolts is next to impossible and while it can be done, it is often less expensive to cast a new keel than to replace and fair the J-bolts in an existing keel.
I would also note that some Grampians were sold as kits. Given that the 34-2 was designed in Europe it would not surprise me if this boat was shipped to Europe as a kit and finished in Europe which may explain may explain the late launch date
It also isn't that odd for particular model boats to be built in multiple countries. For example, my boat was built in 6 different countries, the Laser also was built in 6 counties. J-24's were built in 4-5 counties.
Jeff
So I followed through on these points with the owner by email proxy through the sales rep (as the owner was not directly available for conversation) and the response I got was interesting:

> As you know the add is misleading, it was indeed only the Keel bolts
that were replaced. The historical receipts confirm this. I was not
aware of any damage etc.
>
>
> I was informed the boat was one of the few Grampian 34s built in
the UK by Porter & Haylett. There is a manufacturers plate to this
affect just inside the hatch. Internet searches suggest they built a
few 34s and modified the design and built some 37s.
I responded that 'only keel bolts' was a bit strange:
The ad says "Keel: brand new completely replaced in 2013 with solid
newly patented clone & new keel bolts etc at a cost of over �10,000 inc
VAT by Irons brothers The U.K's best keel maker in Wayde bridge
Cornwall..."

That's a rather specific statement to call a 'misunderstanding' about
keel bolt replacement. Why was this statement originally posted?
And he responded that the original owner probably passed it along incorrectly:
In truth I don't know?

We take the information from owners and the previous owner had passed
on this note to the current owner who in turn handed the file to us
when we listed the boat.

I have now removed that bit of misinformation from the advert.
Yeah a bit weird. They were so specific about the 'newly patented clone' keel, the cost, etc.

Also the ad said in one part the engine was 1999, and in another part it was a 2007.
They confirmed it is a 2007 and again fixed their ad.

Not exactly confidence inspiring when I find multiple errors in their ad, hmm...
Also I found the boat was up for sale first in September of 2019 (on another site, but definitely the same pics, same boat. Odd it has been for sale so long... Though it wouldn't be the first time I found an older ad of the same boat I was looking at.

In any case, the amount of money invested is definitely attractive. Not to have to worry about standing rigging, running rigging, engine, wiring, or electronics is pretty nice! And its encouraging to hear that it's a VDS design. The VDS Seal has a pretty good reputation from what I've read.

In my last question I asked:
"Finally, can you describe what kind of chain plates the boat has, how are they mounted, and if they have been serviced/replaced at any point. "
So I'm waiting to hear back on that.

Thanks again, as always for the detailed response. Every time the football moves just a little bit further down the field :)
 

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If it really is a 1984 boat, then there will be a HIN embossed on the transom that will confirm this.

Mark
I guess there is a Porter and Haylett marking on the boat.
So what is a HIN? Hull ID number? Something like a VIN on a car?
Is there a place I can lookup these numbers online, like a car and see if it has a salvaged title or something?
 

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Rush, do you have a goal for when you buy a boat?
Good question. I did. But like everything else it has been revised with new information and the passing of time.
I wanted to have gotten my learning phase over by the end of this summer, then hunker down in the Ijsselmeer living aboard and sailing on the nicer days until spring, then head for Sweden.

Now I'll be happy if I get something by next spring. I'm not in a rush really.
I'd rather make a good informed decision, and the longer I wait the more I save up, so by spring I'll also have a little bit more to work with.

Still I'd rather if possible be on the boat right now :)
Just trying to be disciplined and informed in this purchase as I feel it will pay off in the long run.
 

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Not exactly confidence inspiring when I find multiple errors in their ad, hmm...
This is how you shake out a potential purchase. Keep at it.

Replacing keel bolts alone is common. Frankly, it’s a huge advantage, being done already. I dare say, it is the most deferred maintenance item in all old sailboats.

It is very common for listings to be incorrect. Brokers often just publish whatever the owner sends them. I was once in contract for a boat that turned out to have neither the inflatable, nor dive compressor that were listed in inventory. They were supposed to arrive for the survey and only then was told the seller would credit for them. Still, that ad was pretty specific about the new keel, so it’s a bit hard to imagine it was an error.

Just trying to be disciplined and informed in this purchase as I feel it will pay off in the long run.
Discipline is good, but I’ve often seen this level of engagement lead to no purchase at all. Every boat is a compromise, so you’ll never find one tick all the boxes of your research. Don’t frustrate yourself.

Frankly, one the best learning experiences is your first survey. Go into contract on the one that comes closest to your needs and attend the survey. Don’t fall in love, unless the title is in your hands. Walk away and write off the cost to an education, if you're not satisfied. A surveyor is not going to review whether a spade rudder is better or worse than a skeg, etc, but you‘ll learn what to look for that might be a problem.

Jump in. The water feels great.
 
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