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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I applied Interlux 2000e to a EXTREMELY THOROUGHLY de-rusted section and rust is already bleeding through after a few weeks on the hard. That approach doesn't seem to work. Granted it was just one coat right now, but it doesn't get much wetness there under the boat while she's on land.

Any issues with using Rustoleum on an iron keel. Specifically, the hardware store manager recommended "Rust Restorer". It goes on white and dries black.

Is there any problem using Rust Restorer?
 

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Most paint is NOT under-water happy :)

It has rained so MUCH ? and clean iron will rust in salt-air in about 15 minutes
 

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The rust restorer works. Several companies make versions of it. It chemically bonds with the rust and can then be painted or faired with fairing compound before applying epoxy, bottom coat, etc. If your coverage is complete, you will have no more rust issues unless you ding the keel, thus compromising the integrity of the barrier.
 

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Skip the Rustoleum..if you are getting boat dvice at the local hardware store...that's a big mistake, even the Sailnet advice is better than a hardware store.

Strip the keel completely, finishing with a wire wheel that leaves it completely bright white. Immediately brush on a coat of West epoxy. Following instructions, apply at least four more coats. Fill and fair with epoxy/microballons to your hearts content. Apply bottm paint. I you do the prep properly, you will never need to do it again.

Or at least it worked on my Beneteau...
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Note that I did an INCREDIBLY good job of taking all rust of the front of the keel. I took golf ball sized chunks out with a grinder. We are talking incredible here. I took off more keel than the rust will do in 20 years. And then I got rust showing through the 2-part barrier coat.

I simply can't get 100% of the rust out without sandblasting, and that isn't going to happen this year. And sandblasting still would not have gotten those rusty areas that were 1/4 inch into the keel and around corners within the keel itself

So I'm a little put off on the 2-part epoxy methods. I clearly need something that goes over the not-completely rust-free, but still shiny metal over 98% of the surface.

I actualy put the Rust Restorer on yesterday. I can wire brush it off if needed, but at least it isn't sitting on the hard rusting right now. IN fact, I'm htinking of wire brushing it all off except for inside the pits and then using the Interlux method of 2-part Yellow metal etcher, followed by barrier coat.

There has got to be a better way. If Barrier coat (Interlux 2000e) sticks to the Rust Restorer, then that might be the best solution.

Any help greatly appreciated.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
The rust restorer works. Several companies make versions of it. It chemically bonds with the rust and can then be painted or faired with fairing compound before applying epoxy, bottom coat, etc. If your coverage is complete, you will have no more rust issues unless you ding the keel, thus compromising the integrity of the barrier.
saildork,

Have you tried this method? How think did you put on the Rust Restorer?

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Bene,
I seem to recall a certain someone, whose name rhymes with Sway, advising you to apply Ospho to that keel when stripped. Ospho is the commercial grade "rust restorer" containing phosphoric acid and you'll recognize it by it's mildew green color. It dries black after it has neutralized the rust.

The advise above, about the application of epoxy immediately after stripping is correct, particularly in a humid, salt air environment. Rust never sleeps, heck, it never even cat-naps!
 

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I am redoing the cast iron keel on my Etap 26 right now. I had a prior experinece with a Catalina 22 keel where the epoxy resin wouldn't cure because of internal moisture in the iron. I would up heating it for a week, then it cured.

This time I got a guy to sand blast the keel. Of course he didn't call me about doing it until it was done, and it started pouring rain. So even though it was indoors it rusted all to hell overnight. I heated the whole 1500 lb keel up to about 300 degrees using a propane weed burner with 500,000 BTUs. It took about 3 hours to heat up, and it was supposed get a light sandblast again, but it rained some more. So I am hoping it gets blasted again tomorrow, and I'll reheat it, then paint while it is still nice and warm. Hopefully that will do the trick.
 

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If you're using regular epoxy, I think any steel primer would be better. We used a variety of primers in the USCG. I don't think any of them were epoxy. Of course, that was 22 years ago.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Note that I'm looking at Rust Reformer. (Not Rust Restorer as originally posted.)

The web site says "Not for immersion use".

Sway- I have a question into the Ospo people to see if theirs is for immersion use. That may be the way to go.
 

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Bene,
The ospo is used to get rid of the rust that is there and than it is removed. It is not a coating to protect from getting rust and it is not left on after it has done its job. I could be wrong, but that is the way I understand it.

If your getting rust coming through your first coat of Interprotect, that means you did not get it all out in the first place. The cast Iron keel is very porous and the rust is deep in there. You have to get it all out or no matter what you put over it, it will continue to rust from the inside out.
 

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bene if you go to home depot they sell a concrete etch that is just phoso acid, not a paint. if you dilute it 2 to 3 to one ( water/acid ) it will convert the rust and etch the surface. this will allow paint to stick well, as well as put a thin iron phosphate coating that will help resist rusting and can be put under water as it is not a paint

basicly it is in the firearm world called parkerizing, it will bubble when you apply it. i would get a cheap garden sprayer and spray it on, with several applications over and hour. make sure you stand up wind, due to the smell.
"edit" when done appling rinse it off, not grind or wire brush just lots of water. it might flash rust a little, but that wont hurt it it should wipe and sand off when preping for interprotect
 

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Bene,

The actual product I used for the keel was Jasco 'Prep & Primer.' This product converts the rust from ferrous iron to iron phosphate. You can apply it with a brush to new metal or to rusted metal.

Another product that works real well is Loctite 'Extend.' Use this product on lightly rusted iron. I have used this on exposed metal on my trailer and other rusted objects that are open to the environment. It does not work on shiny metal...only on rusted metal. I have only seen this product in spray cans, but I understand it is available in a brush-on liquid as well.

A third product I've heard of is called 'Rust Mort.' I've never seen this stuff, but I understand it works like the others do.

I have no direct experience with the Rustoleum product, but it sounds like the same sort of primer as those above. I'm afraid my previous post sounded as if I had used the Rustoleum product. Sorry about that.:eek:

After using the Jasco product on the keel, I used fairing compound to fill and fair the keel. Following that, I laid a piece of fiberglass cloth along the leading and bottom edges of the keel, wetted out with epoxy. I then put several coats of 2-part epoxy (I used West Systems) on the keel, followed by my antifouling.

I have observed no rust yet on the keel, nor has any rust appeared on the trailer parts that I coated with the 'Extend.' I got the idea to use these products from a video that Catalina produced on refinishing the swing keel of the C22. The gentleman who demonstrates the process on the video sails his boat in the Great Salt Lake...many time saltier than the ocean. So I figured if this stuff worked on his keel, it will work on mine.:)

Hope this helps.

Pat
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Bene,
The ospo is used to get rid of the rust that is there and than it is removed. It is not a coating to protect from getting rust and it is not left on after it has done its job. I could be wrong, but that is the way I understand it.

If your getting rust coming through your first coat of Interprotect, that means you did not get it all out in the first place. The cast Iron keel is very porous and the rust is deep in there. You have to get it all out or no matter what you put over it, it will continue to rust from the inside out.
Note there was no rust on the part that bled through. It was a very humid day, however, when it was sealed.

There have got to be many 1000s of people that have touched up rust spots on their keel...
 

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Straight West System epoxy will stick better than Interprotect, be more water resistant and is much harder. Interprotect is easy to work and apply at a performance price. The staight epoxy will also better hold in any of the rust-filler divots you may not be able to completely clean.

You can make this job a life's effort, or you can do once, what has worked for others.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Wow. I'm watching the days slip by as I struggle with this. In cruising other sites, there seems to be several different ways to solve this. I'd like to go with Ortho now, but I wonder if it's the same thing as the Rust Reformer that I already have on. But Interlux has their method and now sailingfool mentions west systems epoxy instead.

That, and my season is only 3 months long due to kids school/sports.

It's getting a little daunting. I really wish there was a straightforward, tested, consumer-reports style, best, "do this dummy".
 

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Brad,

Short of sand blasting the entire keel, Ospho or other phosphoric acid-based rust "converter" is a reasonable thing to put under the Interlux epoxy primer. I almost flunked high school chemistry, but I think what these products are doing is stripping the O molecule off the Fe and replacing it with a phosphorous molecule -- Ferrous oxide becomes ferrous phosphate (or something like that). What's important is to get the O away from the Fe. Once that's done you can put on the Interlux primer, which I think needs at least 4 coats ( put two thick ones on BR's keel before the antifouling went on. We'll see how it goes when we haul in the fall).

At this point in the season -- my recommendation would be to slap on the Ospho (or something similar) and then coat it with Interlux 2000 (several coats) then anti-foul and put the old girl in the water!!!!!! Whatever you've done to that point may not be perfect and may not permanently solve the problem, but it won't make it worse.

You can sort things out when you haul in September/October. If the paint has failed over the summer (rust bleeding through), then haul the boat in a yard where they can sandblast it properly and let them paint it -- that way, if it rusts through you have someone to fix it. Let it sit primed over the winter. By spring you'll know if the yard's fix worked. You can then fair the keel, prime the faring and then anti-foul.

Time marches on!!! Go sailing. ;)
 

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You can paint directly over Ospho. I am not knowledgeable of how epoxy products adhere to it. It'll be fine for immersion. It's the principle rust-fighting product used on merchant ships for non-shipyard maintenance.
 

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At this point in the season -- my recommendation would be to slap on the Ospho (or something similar) and then coat it with Interlux 2000 (several coats) then anti-foul and put the old girl in the water!!!!!! Whatever you've done to that point may not be perfect and may not permanently solve the problem, but it won't make it worse.
I agree. Time to get the boat splashed.

Some comments:

1. Phosporic acid is an alternative to grinding/sanding rusty metal. It attacks the rust quickly, but the iron slowly. If you grind/sand to bare metal, no need for phosphoric acid or other products that use it as the active ingredient. Note that tHE MSDS for Rustoleum Rust Reformer does not list phosporic acic as an ingredient so it is a product that converts rust to a hard material that can be painted.

2. I suspect the "rust through" you experienced is because the one coat of I2000 you applied wasn't enough to seal the iron and the "high points' started rusting in the wet humid weather we have had in the last few weeks.

3. There are a number of approaches to sealing the keel after you have it down to bare metal. I have used Interprotect 2000, but epoxy resin is certainly an option. I decided not to go that way because I was concerned that if I had adhesion problems, getting back to bare metal again would be a major job.

As you know Brad, I've seen your keel, and other than the bulb, its in good shape. At this point, I would clean up the bad spots as best you can, seal with multilpe coats of Interprotect 2000, and apply bottom paint.

Jim
 
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