[christian.hess]

^^^^amen to that(captas paragraph)

this is nonsense never use a car then if your afraid of propane or gas, or an outboard or go inside buildings with heaters

or under your house whatever

it cant get any more simple

there is a valve on the tank connector(prefferably outside in open air or at least a box with a vent down below, I preffer completely exposed) and a soleinoid or second valve before the stove oven...

when using the stoves you always work your way back so with flame on you turn the tank off first...let the gas burn from the tubing completelt then shutoff second valve then stove valve

repeat process to turn on in reverse...

a good way to check for leaks is simply turn on stove first and light it...if it ignites and all your valves are "closed" you know yo have a problem...

I just did this in my house not too long ago...shutting of the valve at the tank did nothing to stop the flame going out so I just replaced the valve

done

all these explosions and stuff are simply from idiots doing stuff wrong or not giving a crap...

fancy expensive installations but the boat is never used so you have something that fails you never know about it and bam...stuff like that

but like others having been around and travelled a lot with propane this was the least of our worries when cruising...

If I were a solo sailor on a very small boat say under 25 feet you cant beat JAMES BALDWINS gimballed kerosene cooker...

it combines the benefits of kerosene, pressure so you have less soot and gimballed single burner for simplicity...

ps alcohol is not a worldwide fuel and is much scarcer and non existant in many countries...using other alcohols is cost prohibitive

kerosene is very popular and yes you can use diesel instead and add a touch of something I forget to improve flame and decrease soot

and lastly PROPANE can be found ANYWHERE

 

[christian.hess]

A car or house are NOT the same as a boat. If you haven't noticed, a boat has a bilge. That bilge collects fumes. You can vent the bilge with a fan, but relying on electrical gizmos that live in a salty, damp environment, to prevent an explosion is problematic at best. Why not just avoid the dangerous fumes all together?

yes I HAVE noticed but the FEAR is nonsense and from travelling around the world I have noticed that properly installed propane systems are what 99 percent of cruisers use and that failure rate due to propane is ZERO

failure cause of dumbass installations or bad useage was what caused problems

it cant get any simpler...a line from a tank to a stove...you shutoff at the source and check for leaks if you are in doubt...thats how you test and see if there is a failure...

if your prudent you replace lines every couple of years

end of story

 

[christian.hess]

Aye, there's the rub --- "when done correctly."

It only takes forgetting, or being distracted, or a leak in the line filling you bilge while you are cooking, ONCE to make for a really bad day.

so you can run an inboard and maintain it but not a line(hose)?

I mean there are installations here and I use tanks down here that are plastic hose, 2 stainless clamps and a valve...they last for years and years and years with absolutely no issues if you have a little grey matter between your ears...

what is hard about replacing a line every 2 years?

you can have a leak in the propane and be cooking and still nothing happens at all...I have done it when cooking at the beach house and you smell it...all you do is replace the valve or line next time you cook

on a boat having fan in the bige is stupidity and you are making something SO SIMPLE so complicated

its the potential sparks of said fan(especially if not a brushlessmotor) that would ignite propane

all you would need to do if you smell gas is simply open bilge and wave a pillow and the gas will flow out

I mean come on guys

 

[christian.hess]

care to expound on that? if there are things that ca be done to make sure nothing like that ever happens on my boat, i will think about the propane option a bit more before i totally rule it out. however, i have read a lot f posts that really don't support propane being a 'safe' fuel and after seeing that burnt out husk at the marina ( and picturing having been my boat ) that sinched it for me. but i'm always willing to listen to the voice of reason.

captain

its a shame you saw that but please do some reseacrh and see what caused it...ask him if need be...or the police report or whatever

propane is not unsafe...by any means and its one of the simplest installations and jobs to do on a boat

its just hose, clamps some tubing...and a valve or solenoid if you want

KISS

 

[christian.hess]

Even the best equipment, installed correctly, can fail. Beyond that, even the smartest people do dumb things from time to time; particularly when tired, or distracted. Now, can you honestly tell us that you've never been tired or distracted while sailing?

im not saying that man

geeze

 

[christian.hess]

Sigh.....

Do what you want. I'll just use a stove that that is safe without relying on anything else.

Im not being argumentative here but what is your ARGUMENT?

electric is the simplest but they do have thier issues if that what you have good for you...

I can say the same to you sigh do what you want

I just dont see what your argument is

I mean I can argue if you have an electric stove that your chances of death by electrocution are much higher or that shorts are more dangerous etc...

same for electric inboard installations when people accidently short the 48, 72, or 96 battery bank it can be deadly but thats not an argument AGAINST electric is it?

you can die there...so what is the argument?

is it that propane is unsafe?
if that is your argument than simply put you are wrong...

if you want to argue that there are better fuels including eletric then I would say you are right up to a point....

practicallity, installation, cost are all issues needed to be considered

what captain jack was asking was based on a recent event regarding propane and an explosion or fire...

if that is enough to scare him off than that is his issue...it would be interesting though to see the cause of the fire...

anyways

whatever method you use be smart and prudent thats all I can advise at this point

 

[christian.hess]

that's an option i hadn't heard of. one question. since it's compressed under high pressure do you have to worry about someone dropping the cannister and it becoming a missile, like an oxygen tank?

hows this for an example

at my restaraunt(small) we use 25 lb and 35 lb propane tanks with simple valves bougt at the hardware store

we had a tank that failed...the internal seal of the tank failed NOT the valve or connector...

yes it was scary for my female cooks who went bezerk and screamed out of the kitchen

I grabbed the tank and took it outside to leak away

you want to know what the propane dealer did to stop the leak?

he grabbed the tank and held it up high over his head and procedeed to smack the top of the tank straight down into the concrete

and bingo the leak stopped...

no jaws type flying oxygen tanks exploding in mouths type stuff

if that were to happen on a boat just let the tank leak till it stops...

 

[christian.hess]

just to add to the discussion I used an origo twin pop down burner alcohol stove that came with my international folkboat really cool stove that stowed as a unit like a locker than simply popped down for use...

safe easy to use the only drawback was expense buying fuel even in california...

the flame was almost impossible to see its was low btys so boiling water for coco or a ramen was not exactly instant and it could be on and you wouldnt know about it unless you put your hand over it...

but Im a cook so flames dont scare me that bad as Im used to flare ups and whatnot...

so its understable to have a natural bad reaction to gas stoves and the like but it can be made simply on any fuel really

just use some common sense and prudency

 

[christian.hess]

see......that's what worries me about propane. it does happen. and it happened in my marina. that's kind of close to home. too close to totally ignore.

just to add to the fire that thread has foul play as one of the causes...

whatever the case just do your research and you will be rewarded wth tons of info

if I ever solo sail again on a small boat I repeat that james baldwins kerosene gimballed cooker is hard to beat

 

[christian.hess]

I had these same fears of cooking with propane, alcohol, butane, etc...

My solution... I removed the original Origo stove which was in great condition but felt it better to use something more safe... what did I do... installed an induction stove into the galley opening and never looked back. I have a 3000 watt pure sine wave inverter that runs the unit and since it's very efficient there is no need to worry about battery usage... haven't had a problem all the time I was using the stove on the boat and my wife that would have been non-skilled on the alcohol stove doesn't have a worry now... it is the first thing my next boat will have... all induction cooking/baking.

I do have a camp stove w/butane in the boat stored away for when we drop anchor on some shore and cook our foods with that.

I kept the Origo stove to replace back on the boat if when selling the buyer wants the alcohol stove... I put it in storage.

I will say it again... I have no worries ever again with the sort of worries others have with these types of flammable fuels.

induction cooker are great...they are very popular in europe and especially france and spain and beleive it or not they are highly regarded by chefs in modern cooking...

MODERN COOKING IS LESS FLAME USE BTW...jajaja

I would live and induction cooker on a boat if I had good space to keep it working with panels, wind power etc...and a nice inverter like you have

they are very cool I think but budget wise not for me yet

 

[christian.hess]

that what the engine is for to heat up a burrito

 

[christian.hess]

Fine in the cockpit, I suppose. But I would not bring that stove into the cabin. I do not trust those cylinders. I have encountered leakers that could not be shut off.

we used one(better design in aluminum) stove like this for our coast to coast trip of north america

was awesome td into a bulkhead and did fine even cooking in bad weather

no complaints here and the tanks are easy to find and recyclable in many places

yes the coleman cans if rusted can develop leaks in the valve but if all esle fails just leave it on deck till it stops

peace

1 can for us lasted a month

 

[christian.hess]

yes its often called the bonhead award jajaja

seriously there are many choices...pick your medicine and be happy and safe

I hated induction units when looked at as a chef...but looking at it for the pros, simplicity and the like they are great but do have their faults...

you need really good pans...and they have to be FLAT so sautee pans and sautesses dont really work well


thock expensive copper coated bottoms are almost a must for induction units

in cooking school there were those that loved them(they are great for stews soups etc sinde they dont have hot spots and cook evenly) but for certain things they arent that great

but for a guy on a boat who wants simplicity Im all for it

now being on the hook or cruising I still havent seen a boat use it as a primary stove...

I still think its a lot of battery juice for most cruisers...get some bad weather and no solar panel juice and your out of luck if your out of gas with the genny

and cooking is kind of peacefull on boats and running a genny just to cook isnt my cup of tea

now in a marina with shorepower all good

 

[christian.hess]

methane oh no!

I read somewhere that cows and us humans contribute more to global warming through methane(farts) than other types of pollution

it made me laugh and sad at the same time...its one thing or the other, dont know how true it all is but its just life

some things explode so be careful!

peace

 

[christian.hess]

Christian... no one needs to run the genny while cooking... that could be done once sailing and away from the hook assuming the batteries need topping off... I've never had to since as quickly as the boat was back on shore power they charged up just fine or slowly topped off with my small solar panel... I really don't see the reaction many have if they've never used one. I'm not creating Paul Prudhomme's Creole recipes on the boat... mostly heating meals or simple boiling of rice/stews/soups... the occasional steaming of seafoods, etc.... all taking less than 4 minutes... water comes to boil in less than 1 minute with the induction cooker... watch it on Youtube.

I bought a nice set of pans to use with the unit but any cast iron skillet varieties will work... what will not work is copper/aluminum unless it has a steel bottom... they also sell a steel plate that the copper/aluminum pans sit on that will conduct the heat thereby letting you use conventional cookware, it's just one more item to carry onboard. Why?

my express point was for those that CANT get back to the dock...thats all bud

Im very familiar with the induction cookers...like I mentioned before I got into HUGE arguments with other chefs in the cooking schools I was attending in spain...

HEAVY ARGUMENTS both for and against

jajaja

 

[christian.hess]

Ha ha ha... one ride through Compton, CA or through certain parts of Texas will have you gasping for air... this from experience many times driving highways I-5 and I-10. Methane... stay away!

I lived and worked in stockton ca,

pass through lodi, modesto and I foregt some other places and its deadly

BUT YOU GET USED TO IT

jajajaja

 

[christian.hess]

A good icebox will go longer than a weekend. The one on our boat keeps a block of ice for 5 days. The cooler on our old boat didn't work very well, so we bought this Coleman that also lasts 4-5 days:
Amazon.com: Coleman 36-Quart Xtreme Cooler (Blue): Sports & Outdoors

We use an Origo unpressurized alcohol stove and I wouldn't want anything else. It is reliable, simple, and effective. Last year during 7 weeks of cruising I went through about 1.5 gallons of fuel.

its great stateside I loved mine on my folkboat

the issue is it becomes obsolete in some countries and not possible to use unless you want to throw away your $$$

its prohibitely expensive in some countries to use as your sole cooking fuel

cheers

 

[christian.hess]

ok

dont see what the boat has to do with cooking fuel type

you win I guess

 

[christian.hess]

i would suppose that he is saying the fact that alcohol is not readily available or economically prudent outside of the U.S. is unimportant as i probably wouldn't be blue water sailing in this boat.

I get that bud...sprry if it sounded like a snip

get whatever fuel you have best access too and enjoy the most...you have options up there so that is great for you

I just didnt see what the boat model had to do with anything but obviously if youre not ever going to travel with the boat at least overseas then yeah no issues with alcohol

having said that I posted before that even when I was in berkeley not every place had alcohol...and west marine was way expensive and it was more of a hassle than simple propane

for whatever thats worth

hope you find a cooking method that suits and pleases you

its very apparent that you have OPTIONS

 

[christian.hess]

I dont think Im criticising, at least initially I mentioned it be great no nonsense system for our boats

BUT for cruising its still too much of a draw it has the same drawacks that an electric inboard would for long term cruising

you need a lot of panels and wind power to make it a 3 times a day source for cooking but Id be glad to see some low draw ones in the market soon