SailNet is a forum community dedicated to Sailing enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about sailing, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, repairs, reviews, maintenance, and more!

safe cooking

24065 Views 300 Replies 39 Participants Last post by hellosailor, Apr 6, 2014

captain jack

Discussion Starter · Mar 30, 2014

i have read a lot of threads about stoves on boats. of course, the usual debate is alcohol or propane.

recently, last month actually, a powerboat at the marina my boat is berthed at caught fire and burned up completely. it was a live aboard. the guy was hurt but he lived. he was lucky. he bought another power boat off of their lean dock and moved into it. the cause? his propane stove.

that was a real piece of reality for me. no propane on my boat!

but, there are safety risks with alcohol, too. the threads i have read make that plain. so, the big question i have is what other options are there?

also, how real is the risk with alcohol?

as i get my boat ready to sail, this will be a choice i am going to have to face. it doesn't have a stove but i will want one for cruising. eating out at every port you stp at is going to be way too costly and you can't always be sure you will be stopping at a port for the night. thanks.

61 - 80 of 301 Posts

MastUndSchotbruch

· #61 · Mar 30, 2014

captain jack said:
wouldn't a kero cook stove stink like a kero heater? and what about the fumes? kero heaters can kill you. kero is safer to handle than, say, gas.

Kerosene stinks if it is not properly vaporized. For instance, if you put it in an oil lamp (with a wick), that will happen. Or if your stove/oven is not properly maintained or operated.

If properly vaporized, good quality kerosene has no smell.

Fumes: yet, if you spill it, it will smell. But it will not explode and it will burn only with difficulty (you can throw a match in a puddle of kerosene and it will not burn). It will also smell if not properly vaporized (typically not enough pre-heating).

Kero heaters can kill you if you operate them without enough fresh air (carbon monoxide poisoning). This applies to ANY open flame heater (kero, gas, wood, coal, ...).

So, in summary, the worst consequence of poor maintenance or poor operation of a kerosene stove is that it smells. For LPG, it is instant death of the operator and anyone else on board.

Which one do you choose?

Reactions: 3

barefootnavigator

· #62 · Mar 30, 2014

Puddin'_Tain said:
It's a boat --- things break, wear through, jiggle loose, etc.

Thats what we call a complete and total lack of routine maintenance.

MastUndSchotbruch

· #63 · Mar 30, 2014

barefootnavigator said:
If you have rats on your boat propane is the least of your problems. I guess a plane could crash into your boat that may sever the line.

I would not consider a gas explosion a minor problem.

The boat in the slip next to me (on the Chesapeake Bay) some time ago discovered a mouse on the boat. It happens.

barefootnavigator

· #64 · Mar 30, 2014

Did his boat explode?

Puddin'_Tain

· #65 · Mar 30, 2014

barefootnavigator said:
Thats what we call a complete and total lack of routine maintenance.

I'm sorry. I didn't realize I was talking to a perfect boat owner. For us mere mortals, sh*t happens.

barefootnavigator

· #66 · Mar 30, 2014

Now that you know let me give you a little free advice that will save your life. Maintain your boat and it will maintain your life and lifestyle. How easy is that???

sidney777

· #67 · Mar 30, 2014 (Edited)

A used origo stove from Sweden, because a new 2 burner is $250-350. Denatured alcohol stove fuel-$10 to $20 a gallon at hardware stores, quart at walmart. Hard not to spill when filling canisters. You need to see pics of canister.

MastUndSchotbruch

· #68 · Mar 30, 2014 (Edited)

barefootnavigator said:
Did his boat explode?

(It was more her boat than his, actually. Anyway.)

No, it did not explode.

And your point is? I don't even know what stove they had on the boat (they have since moved). Let us assume it was indeed gas.

Then you have clearly shown that there is ONE boat with an LPG system that did NOT immediately blow up. Even though it was certainly possible, just as the boat that exploded this week because of the rat bite.

I would feel so much better now if I had a gas system.

Puddin'_Tain

· #69 · Mar 30, 2014

Here's a story of a boat owner who wouldn't have had any real problems IF her boat's stove had been a non-pressureized alcohol unit. Granted, she made a pretty dumb mistake by using a lighter after she smelled gas, but mere mortals make mistakes from time to time.

barefootnavigator

· #70 · Mar 30, 2014

MastUndSchotbruch said:
(It was more her boat than his, actually. Anyway.)

No, it did not explode.

And your point is? I don't even know what stove they had on the boat (they have since moved). Let us assume it was indeed gas.

Then you have clearly shown that there is ONE boat with an LPG system that did NOT immediately blow up. Even though it was certainly possible, just as the boat that exploded this week because of the rat bite.

I would feel so much better know if I had a gas system.

Let me take a minute and explain how a properly used and maintained propane system works very simply. There is a shut off at the tank it should be shut off IE NO FUEL IN LINE OR BOAT. RTFM

bljones

· #71 · Mar 30, 2014 (Edited)

barefootnavigator said:
Now that you know let me give you a little free advice that will save your life. Maintain your boat and it will maintain your life and lifestyle. How easy is that???

Alex, "What is unnecessary pollyannaesque condescension?"
I'll take "Armchair Hypothetical $500/mo. Cruisers with All the Answers" for $400.

Reactions: 3

barefootnavigator

· #72 · Mar 30, 2014

I might have a 500 budget but at least I can turn a stove on...

MastUndSchotbruch

· #73 · Mar 30, 2014

barefootnavigator said:
Let me take a minute and explain how a properly used and maintained propane system works very simply. There is a shut off at the tank it should be shut off IE NO FUEL IN LINE OR BOAT. RTFM

I couldn't even think of replying to this any better than bljones does in the previous posting

Reactions: 3

Puddin'_Tain

· #74 · Mar 30, 2014 (Edited)

barefootnavigator said:
Let me take a minute and explain how a properly used and maintained propane system works very simply. There is a shut off at the tank it should be shut off IE NO FUEL IN LINE OR BOAT. RTFM

And if the valve seal(s) fail, or you get distracted and simply forget, or if the flame gets blown out, etc.???

Let ME take a minute and explain to you how alcohol stoves work --- they CANNOT produce explosive gases (I.E., NO POTENTIALLY EXPLOSIVE FUMES IN THE BILGE, OR ON THE BOAT IN GENERAL; NONE, ZERO, NADDA, ZIP, ZILCH). Propane, on the other hand IS an explosion risk, RTFM*.

(* - From the manual for a Dickinson propane unit: "LPG is heavier than air and if allowed will settle in lower areas resulting in a potential explosion.")

Reactions: 1

Jiminri

· #75 · Mar 30, 2014

Puddin'_Tain said:
And if the valve seal(s) fail, or you get distracted and simply forget, or if the flame gets blown out, etc.???

.

If the flame goes out then appliances with a thermocouple will automatically stop the flow of gas.

barefootnavigator

· #76 · Mar 30, 2014 (Edited)

Puddin'_Tain said:
And if the valve seal(s) fail, or you get distracted and simply forget, or if the flame gets blown out, etc.???

Let ME take a minute and explain to you how alcohol stoves work --- they CANNOT produce explosive gases (I.E., NO POTENTIALLY EXPLOSIVE FUMES IN THE BILGE, OR ON THE BOAT IN GENERAL; NONE, ZERO, NADDA, ZIP, ZILCH). Propane, on the other hand IS an explosion risk, RTFM*.

(* - From the manual for a Dickinson propane unit: "LPG is heavier than air and if allowed will settle in lower areas resulting in a potential explosion.")

What if a rat eats through your storage bottle and you accidentally point your lit blow torch it the hole where alcohol is leaking out.

Jiminri

· #77 · Mar 30, 2014

Checking for a leak on propane lines is so easy and fast that it can (and should be) done periodically.

Turn tank valve on. Immediately turn it off. Note reading on pressure gauge. Wait 5 minutes. Look at pressure gauge again. It's that easy.

If the pressure has dropped at all, you have a leak. Do not use the propane system until you have found and fixed the leak.

I find the "What if (insert low probability event here)?" a bit silly.

As I said before, propane can explode. (So can gas fumes.) Everyone has to decide what risks to take and how to mitigate them.

Reactions: 1

Puddin'_Tain

· #78 · Mar 30, 2014 (Edited)

barefootnavigator said:
What if a rat eats through your storage bottle and you accidentally point your blow lit torch it the hole where alcohol is leaking out.

No fuel is absolutely safe. However, propane is inherently more risky than alcohol. No amount of valves, sniffers, and assorted safety gizmos will ever change that simple fact. If you feel propane is worth the risk, fine, feel free to use it to your heart's content. It's your life. But I will also feel free to tell folks the facts. If I'm wrong, I take a minute or two longer to cook my lunch. If you're wrong, BOOM! You make your choice, I'll make mine.

End of discussion, as far as I'm concerned.

barefootnavigator

· #79 · Mar 30, 2014

Puddin'_Tain said:
As I said earlier, no fuel is absolutely safe. Propane is inherently more risky than alcohol. No amount of valves, sniffers, and assorted safety gizmos will ever change that simple fact. If you feel propane is worth the risk, fine, feel free. It's your life. But I will also feel free to tell folks the facts. If I'm wrong, I take a minute or two longer to cook my lunch. If you're wrong, BOOM! You make your choice, I'll make mine.

End of discussion, as far as I'm concerned.

The problem with coming into the middle of a thread like this is you miss all the previous posts like where I gave a very specific positive example of years of use with a a non pressurized alcohol stove, they are great. Propane stoves are also great and safe as is kerosene when used properly.

capta

· #80 · Mar 30, 2014

Puddin'_Tain said:
A car or house are NOT the same as a boat. If you haven't noticed, a boat has a bilge. That bilge collects fumes. You can vent the bilge with a fan, but relying on electrical gizmos that live in a salty, damp environment, to prevent an explosion is problematic at best. Why not just avoid the dangerous fumes all together?

Gee, do you have a stove in your car, I don't! Never have! No, the point there was that DRIVING is more dangerous than having a propane stove on a boat; do you understand that point now?
For crying out loud, talk about missing the point, much!

Reactions: 1

61 - 80 of 301 Posts

This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.